to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

[Foreverexhausted]

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

It's both really isn't it? Take an analogy with universities. They are not perfect now they charge fees but at a philosophical level they are state institutions available to all. If suddenly the most popular/best known were available only on money grounds that both feels morally wrong and would probably have a detrimental impact on the best state universities because they are no longer institutions that the whole population is invested in. The same is true of healthcare actually- though I take the point that if state provision is good enough (by which I'd like to say world class) then the private sector alternative becomes attractive to only a very niche market and won't fundamentally undermine the state version. I am not for outlawing private school quite yet, but I do feel the need to defend the moral case for state educating and shout down those who say this makes me a terrible parent or a liar.

Interesting point Gobblebox. I was at a private school until GCSEs and chose to leave and do my A Levels at a state school. At both places I did well without feeling any pressure. At the private school most of the pressure kids were under seemed to come from people's parents, and mine weren't like that.

I chose to leave because I didn't like the culture of the private place and had been bullied and unhappy. The teaching wasn't actually very good and was better at the state. I was fed up of the school parading my achievements as if they were down to the school, when they weren't. Class behaviour wasn't good either. It was more like a good comp than a private school. I was of course lucky to go there as I benefitted massively from the extra curricular stuff. Home wasn't happy so being at school all the time, while tiring, saved me.

I cannot agree with the commenters who say abolishing private wouldn't improve state. In my opinion it would utterly transform this country. It will never happen though.

I've only been to Holland park once, to visit a former boss. She's a fairly terrifying individual. Not sure I'd fancy her as my next door neighbour

there are so many permeations state child at a leafy outstanding school vs private child at a sub standard private school
^^This. Where we live there are some private schools with below state performance for results; but i assume those parents and kids must have other reasons to favour them??

There aren't that many permutations on Mumsnet-bearing in mind that there are only two categories of state school- "leafy" and "failing"!

Anyway, IMHO, the people who are potentially wasting money are the ones who send their child to private school primariy for results. There are obviously good reasons on an individual level for choosing private-results aren't one.

How would abolishing schools where only a very small % of the population utterly transform the country? There are a few very elite and academically superb private schools and grammar schools and the rest are in a spectrum. Get rid of the elite private and grammar and you still have the spectrum. Not being faux naïf at all. At least not deliberately...

I have no problem with private schools
I have a MASSIVE problem with state funded segregated schools

Many of the misconceptions about state schools on MN come from Londoners
London has the most broken state school admissions in the country.

The state has no place funding religious ghetto schools
The state has no place funding schools filled with the tutored children of the well heeled.

The state should fund schools that allow equal access to all
and then use Pupil Premium to even up the allocation of resources.

@famousfour - presumably because the very small %age of people who go to private school exert way more than their fair share of influence on the country?

Also agree with that talkIn.

I think that’s true historically but really anyone can get into any field regardless if their school nowadays. As others have pointed out it’s more about cultural capital, parental support and wealth (such as who can afford to do unpaid internships etc), who has bank of Mum and dad behind them to buy a house etc. I honestly think the private school thing is a bit of a side show. More of a symptom than a cause. Abolishing private school would solve none of these issues.

The people with power in this country largely went to private school and send their children to private school. So have no skin in the state school game. They also use private health care, so have no skin in the NHS game. Private education perpetuates the sense of us and them. Institutional unfairness is incredibly damaging to society.

Private education can be good for individuals, but bad for society.

Institutional unfairness would be the state providing different categories of schools for different types of children based on some metric - surely. Or different hospitals for different groups. Not the private market.

FWIW private healthcare doesn’t really replace the NHS so plenty of skin in the game there for people... it just gets you seen a bit quicker for non urgent things.

Anyway, IMHO, the people who are potentially wasting money are the ones who send their child to private school primarily for results.

Yes. There was more spoon feeding at my private school, meaning some kids did do a bit better than they would have done elsewhere, but a lot of the time the teachers were under siege from parents ('why hasn't my child done better, I'm paying for this' etc). Err, it doesn't work like that..

Reminds me of a crazy day a decade ago when (while
Living in a leafy! Part of London) we rocked up at a well known school to have a look round with our year 5 DS. We'd basically been freaked out by all the school talk around us so we thought we ought.
Anyway, while sitting in a queue of jags and 4WDs we watched the dad in front of us hop out and berate the grounds man who was keeping him waiting. The words 'Do you know who I am?' were heard loud and clear echoing along the queue. Can you imagine dealing with a parent like that?
We went home after a quick look, confirmed in our belief that private wasn't for us!
It was funny, mind. The grounds man didn't let him in 😁

”Can you imagine dealing with a parent like that?
We went home after a quick look, confirmed in our belief that private wasn't for us!
It was funny, mind. The grounds man didn't let him in 😁”

You decided based on the individual behaviour of one parent (who clearly wasn’t the kind of parent the school in question tolerated judging by the groundsman’s confidence to turn him away) that a whole sector wasn’t for you?

Goodness.

Imagine the reaction you’d have got on here if you’d described encountering poor behaviour of one parent at one state school and decided you must send your darlings private as a result...

"We went home after a quick look, confirmed in our belief that private wasn't for us! "

What a very odd reaction to seeing a school deal effectively with an arsehole!

I often wondered what happens to the kids of ex-politicians who put them in state while they are in office? Are Cameron's kids still in delightful CofE state schools or have they jumped ship to Eton once the cameras stop rolling?

Our school system is a mess in the UK - either amazing or terrible.

I don't agree with some PPs because even if we did make all schools community and comprehensive AND banned private schools, there would still be social segregation because richer people would flock to the country or the suburbs and buy themselves a "nice" community.

The only answer is to make teaching a more attractive choice for graduates, pay them more and support them on the job, so that standards improve everywhere and the gaps in teaching skills are reduced. New teachers are on the breadline in London and can barely survive.

WIW private healthcare doesn’t really replace the NHS so plenty of skin in the game there for people... it just gets you seen a bit quicker for non urgent things

This is absolutely not true, we are losing lots of skilled Drs to the private sector because of various issues in the NHS.
My trust has just lost a highly skilled reconstructive plastic surgeon who is now completely private. He is mid forties, rising star and desperately missed. One of several we have lost in the past two years.

If you don’t think that private healthcare affects the NHS then you would be completely unaware of what really goes on. NHS secretaries routinely used for private patient work just for a start.

If you don’t think that private healthcare affects the NHS then you would be completely unaware of what really goes on. NHS secretaries routinely used for private patient work just for a start.

And the NHS being used for xrays, blood tests, etc., by private patients' doctors. Then of course, the private doctor puts the patient back in the NHS for treatment after they've jumped the queue for diagnosis. The NHS managers need to get a grip on their doctors happily taking private patient fees but using NHS facilities - but of course, the doctors/consultants will effectively be blackmailing the NHS by saying they'll leave the NHS if their private "perks" are removed. Personally, I think they need their bluff called and be told that they're either private (and have to pay for support services, tests etc themselves) or NHS - I'm sure many won't want to give up their NHS perks- they just like the best of both worlds. Like the way a dentist friend of mine went private (but still took on "free" NHS work i.e. pregnant women, children, etc), and then returned full time to NHS work in his 50's to get his final salary pension scheme topped up! Shouldn't be allowed to leech off the NHS that way.

New teachers are on the breadline in London and can barely survive.

I agree that PS workers in London need higher wages, BUT, in the long run, it will just fuel prices even more. I don't agree with increased wages throughout the country. There are areas where teachers, nurses, PCs, etc are actually very well paid compared to the locals because of national pay bargaining applying in very run down areas. Our local average earnings are under £20k, so teachers etc are actually paid well above average in such areas. We need to scrap national pay bargaining and pay according to local market conditions so that wages in high cost areas can be increased but not also in the run down areas where wages can already be twice local averages.

I agree entirely, @Kazzyhoward. It's a localised problem.

Sharing a flat in London zone 3 is £1K a month - that's a huge burden for young teachers who can only aspire to even rent a flat alone, let alone buy.

And the NHS being used for xrays, blood tests, etc., by private patients' doctors. Then of course, the private doctor puts the patient back in the NHS for treatment after they've jumped the queue for diagnosis

I was coming back to add that and you beat me to it. This happens ALL the time, tests done privately (using NHS rescources), patient goes back in to NHS queue but has jumped ahead of waiting list because tests are done.

It’s hardly ever raised on mumsnet compared to the daily private school threads.

It’s hardly ever raised on mumsnet compared to the daily private school threads

Because the NHS is a sacred cow and every single person working in it is a saint. Didn't you know that? You're not allowed to criticise the NHS.

“I often wondered what happens to the kids of ex-politicians who put them in state while they are in office? Are Cameron's kids still in delightful CofE state schools or have they jumped ship to Eton once the cameras stop rolling?”

They’re not in Eton, but they did jump ship asap once the cameras stopped rolling. One DS is in St Paul’s.

Don’t think Labour politicians are any more “principled” either.

One of the Cameron children is at St Pauls’s, I think. Or Colet Court. Isn’t the girl still at Greycoats? Don’t know about the little one- probably doing “state til 8”........

To be fair to the son at Colet Court, he must have passed the entrance exam so good for him. I doubt even David Cameron could wangle his son a place there. You need minimum average CAT scores of 135 to even stand a chance and they wouldn’t take a child who couldn’t cope in that environment.