to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

[Foreverexhausted]

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

I believe I'm allowed to make a separate point following on from the replies longestlurker, that doesn't answer the original question. Do let me know if I've misunderstood the mumsnet rules.

Not entirely sure what you mean to be honest. We disagree, nothing against the rules about that.

What I don’t understand is when parents say they don’t want to give their child a leg up through opportunity like private education as they don’t want them to have an unfair advantage.
This to me seems ludicrous. There is never a level playing field in education because nothing is or can be equal - the school maybe state but I think Holland Park Comp vs Aintree Comp would be vastly different in terms of demographics, facilities, parental input etc
Most people who state this, in my opinion, are in a fantastically privileged position in a well funded area with reasonably or very bright children probably in a two parent family.
The biggest elephant in the room to me and I’m surprised no-one has mentioned it yet is Cultural Capital that’s to me is a big piece of what we are buying with our money I’m afraid and that is quite often what gets people’s backs up when private vs state debate happens ‘dons tin-hat and runs’.

equal funding of state schools would make fee paying irrelevant for all but snobs
I agree with that. We're state educated but kids are just in private purely for the results and other stuff.....the name and label is of no interest to us. Thankfully our kids schools don't do any pomp and ceremony. No straw boaters either.

Parsley,

Do you think that parents cannot provide cultural capital?

Does this HAVE to come from a private school, or can it come from the family home instead?

If parents / family CAN provide cultural capital, do you think it is acceptable for a parent to CHOOSE to provide cultural capital in this way, alongside state schooling, or is this in some way 'doing it wrong'?

I see no issue with a parent acknowledging that simply through accidents of birth and environment, their child is already given a very substantial leg up, and to choose not to further drive that divide.

you end up with ‘failing’ schools is because the parents who are able to support & invest in the school send their children elsewhere.

As they have every right to do, by the way.

Most people who state this, in my opinion, are in a fantastically privileged position in a well funded area with reasonably or very bright children probably in a two parent family. This is exactly the type of argument I pointed out previously - that someone who says 'Yes, some state schools + family / community environment can be comparable to some private schools' has their experience discounted simply because their school and community opportunities are good. Why is the experience of parents in areas with good schools - 89% of all schools - declared invalid? Surely families who can afford private schooling are by definition equally or more fantastically priviledged than those whose experiences they choose to ignore?

Cultural capital is what I am talking about when I say that the sort of children who would most benefit from a private school are the ones who would never in a million years get to go to one.

@okhitmewithit

You oy said I would was clearly state educated. I was privately educated. I am average intelligence at best, and no great loss to state system. My parents didn't do any extra curricular activities as I had private education, and they were both busy working. Neither did they do homework with me as I had prep after school. Although I was a day pupil the bus never left school till 5.30pm..... I was at school from 8.30am to 5.30pm with either prep or after school clubs from 4pm to 5.30pm. Saturdays were lessons in morning followed by sport.

I was terribly bullied at both my private schools. Although I may have also been bullied in a state school. The only reason private is a possibility for us is that I have a high earning state educated husband.

Both my private schools had a large number of students from abroad bringing money into the country. I don't think this was detrimental to state.

I do not think for a second my private education took from the state. At the time my parents were paying between 30-40k in tax a year, on top of school fees.

I stand by my assertion that private education being detrimental to state as nonsensical. In fact I think it saves the state system loads of cash, in not having to fund those children's education.

Sorry for any typos on my phone.

BertrandRussell what if we mandated public schools had to take 10% of their intake from PRUs?

Bert, absolutely.

I would regard the fact that a private school can impart cultural capital to their pupils as a huge benefit IF the pupils attending such school had no opportunity to acquire such capital via any other means.

The fact it further adds to something which virtually all of these children have in abundance is a problem, not a benefit, to society.

Die,

I think that all schools - state, selective, faith, even perhaps private - should take the regional average number of a) children with SEN and b) students in receipt of a better-calculated version of PP.

I also think that all schools should face equal barriers to temporary and permanent exclusions and managed moves, and all should publish identical measures of progress.

DC1 passed an exam to all the private and 11+ schools. One -all same sex school (state) was the one they set their heart on -given all the options. So far saved me £16,000 per year -very happy and they are having an outstanding state education much better than the private school in the area -their results are outstanding. Likewise DC2 goes to one of the top ten state schools -instead of the same £16,000 a year school. My best friends children have also passed 11+ and moving from private primary and secondary state.

(So for example, the pass mark in a selective school would be lower for children with PP; and the effective catchment be as large as it needs to be for those with SEN or in receipt of PP, which could be many times the size of the catchment for those with no disadvantage.)

dieantworld
what if we mandated public schools had to take 10% of their intake from PRUs?
Your comment shows how astoundingly little you know about how PRUs work
they have no "intake" FFS

the MN bubble strikes again

PRUs are excellent things
and properly funded and integrated make education better for EVERYBODY

I never said they weren’t excellent :/

Honestly I wish I’d been sent to one, I was extremely disaffected in school and I think it would have helped a lot.

The outcome that is always mentioned with state vs private is exam results this is not the main part of benefit to many it is the Cultural Capital.
I have no issue with anyone benefitting their children as they see fit can a home environment do it ? possibly if the peer and education system supports the parents home life obviously this has many permeations.
Regarding the poster who said 10% of PRU children to go to private school yes great full boarding so their home life doesn’t impact on the good the school is doing as merely by the attendance at a PRU indicates alot of behaviour issues.
From my experience as a previous foster career there is a lot of chippiness from social workers and social services about private education, also alot of race to the bottom attitudes which drove me to resign over an education issue.
We all want the best for our children but please don’t make it state vs private there are so many permeations state child at a leafy outstanding school vs private child at a sub standard private school and in some ways there is always fealings of superiority
‘I choose state I’m down with society’
‘I choose private I’m superior to 93%’
It’s all rubbish just accept what you’ve chosen - in my opinion cultural capital can only be replicated in a state school if you are at an environment like Holland Park Comp where you might as well be at private but you just ‘appear’ to be at state. Apologies to HPC it’s just a school I know of that is like an excellent private

It depends on what your view of cultural capital is though doesn't it? My DD goes to a state primary in a diverse area of London but it is truly diverse and is home to quite a lot of successful people in the arts, academia, politics, as well as people who work in retail, are refugees, key workers. I know the value of this and think she's very lucky, but don't live in Holland park, nor would i wish to.

Just realised how that read. Nothing against Holland park- just meant I don't live in a bubble of privilege

Nothing against Holland Park? Dying  I love you

I'm confident enough to say (maybe because I went to private school) that I'm jealous whoever lives in Holland Park 😳

I haven't RTFT.

I guess this doesn't apply to us because we can't afford it so there is no choice about it, but if I worked FT (I currently work PT), worked evenings, and DH did the same we could.

I went to a private school, my mum worked 6 days a week to facilitate this. My dad didn't work, didn't do anything actually. I felt like i never saw my mum, so I don't want that for my kids. I don't judge or disagree with those who choose a different path. I think that parental involvement in schooling is worth a great deal more than what many people realise.

IF we had plenty of money and our lifestyle wouldn't be compromised then we would probably choose private education, but then I suspect plenty more people would.

With regards to the merit of private schools and if it's "value for money". The common perspective seems to be that a student achieving a mix of grades from A - C at GCSE means that their parents "wasted" money on private education. But arguably a student who will struggle to achieve a C in Maths will get a lot of value from smaller class sizes in private schools. I was one of those students and benefitted hugely from being only 1 of 6 students in the maths group. But also, even the richest parent can't pay for their child to get top grades. What you are paying for is for support so your child can do their best - for some that might mean a clean sweep of As, for others it won't.

If state education is good enough then I’m not sure why private school matters really.

Any more than I care whether someone can go and get a gold leaf plated birth with five course gourmet meals at the Portland provided that I can get a good birth at my local hospital.

I’m not sure I buy into the idea that if all private schools were abolished state schools would be miraculously improved. We would have the same mix as now I would imagine - some very good some not so good.

If it’s that people philosophically dislike a ‘superior’ or ‘elite’ education being available to some and not others based on income then I get it more even if I don’t particularly agree.

FWIW I think issues like the old boys network are increasingly irrelevant in the work place.

So basically I’m unconvinced private schools make a practical difference but get that people might not like the idea of them.

“If state education is good enough then I’m not sure why private school matters really.”

Are you genuinely asking this question, or are you being faux naïf?