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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

999 replies

Foreverexhausted · 13/10/2018 15:11

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

OP posts:
Ennirem · 18/10/2018 07:47

Jacques Hammer I've never said the teaching isn't better - I'm quite sure it is. Elite institutions tend to have better teachers and better teaching systems, I discovered this when I went to Oxford for my Master's and was stunned by the difference in quality and volume of the contact time compared to my undergrad uni. Not to mention the opportunities for personal development and enrichment. I've never said the teaching wouldn't get better results. What other people on broadly the same side of he argument as me say can't really be used to undermine my specific points can it?

Lethaldrizzle · 18/10/2018 07:50

I want my kids to get educated and have happy lives. I don't feel the need to give them the very best of every thing. The 'what's best for my child' argument irks me a little.

Everincreasingfrequency · 18/10/2018 07:50

"If the comp is really that bad - that's what contextual offers are for!"

Do Oxbridge make them though? (I know this thread isn't really about Oxbridge, but just coming back to a point someone made earlier about admissions there.)

JacquesHammer · 18/10/2018 07:57

I want my kids to get educated and have happy lives. I don't feel the need to give them the very best of every thing. The 'what's best for my child' argument irks me a little

That’s exactly what “what’s best for my child means” - educated and happy.

Ennirem my apologies, I got posters confused.

But the point still stands broadly in this discussion.

Bi11yButton · 18/10/2018 08:01

Said contextual offers clearly aren't going far enough. Being taught in even a middling comp is a world away from a top private school. The advantages are enormous. Plenty of B/ just A students will have everything money can buy thrown at them to get A*s.

Schnickers · 18/10/2018 08:08

Honestly the state secondary they are now at has better facilities and smaller classes than our local private school

Unless your dcs are doing very specialist A levels I find the class size statement very hard to believe

Tinkobell · 18/10/2018 08:09

If the private sector effectively becomes quashed by govt taxation etc, won't pushy parents just seek "private solutions" more actively and more aggressively but within the state sector - I'm talking tutoring, extra lessons, academic clubs, gifted and talented tuition: all this stuff which puts noses out but might prove to be an irresistible extra income stream to cash strapped school budgets.

Whilst far from ideal, at least at the moment to two sectors are quite distinct. I just think that brits as a whole have a "shop around / money buys choice" psyche and you can't just erase that because where there is money....commercial interest Will always be opportunistic and stick its foot in the door.

Schnickers · 18/10/2018 08:11

If private schools get quoshed they will just reinvent themselves as private tuition academies and parents can pay to send them there after school and in the holidays.

thereallifesaffy · 18/10/2018 08:15

Can I just quash the contextual offer nonsense? It's a thing I hear a lot about from friends whose children go to private schools. Oh, they say your children will
Be fine bc they'll get contextual offers. Let me be clear: No one at our at best average school got them. And the grades my children got to get into oxbridge and another similarly high ranking institution for her subject were above the standard offers. They were given no special consideration.
I think a school has to be on its knees for contextual offers to make an appearance. And it that case, fair enough.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2018 08:16

“Hold on, I thought comps were all leafy and outstanding on mumsnet?”

No. Only the ones near posters who use state education. The ones near posters who use private education are full of drugs, knives and knuckle dragging Neanderthals. And that’s just the teachers. Grin

Knittink · 18/10/2018 08:21

I have taught in good and bad state schools and good and bad private schools. If I could afford to send my children to a good private school, I'd do it like a shot. The best state school I've taught at could not ever compare with the good private schools I've taught at (in terms of opportunities, extra-curricular, behaviour and motivation levels of pupils, class sizes, stability of staff turnover etc).

Tinkobell · 18/10/2018 08:25

Denmark interests me. Tax rate is av. 55%. Brilliant education system, high rate of FE / HE with amazing vocational program. Danes are happy to pay for it. You can develop and create whatever you want if you're happy to pay for it, what we are really arguing about here is the funding route but for the same thing, great education. But would people pay that level of tax to fund it? Hand-on-heart, if there was a Danish system here in the UK I'd pay for and use it.

Schoolirons · 18/10/2018 08:30

'Schnickers

Honestly the state secondary they are now at has better facilities and smaller classes than our local private school

Unless your dcs are doing very specialist A levels I find the class size statement very hard to believe.'

Children are at a small state secondary.
There are 8 in DS history class.
German has 12
I don't think many classes go above 15.

Granted it's probably unusual due to its size but the ops question was specific to personal situations.

AlexaShutUp · 18/10/2018 08:35

The class sizes in the sixth form at my state comp ranged from 6-11 students, depending on the subject.

AlexaShutUp · 18/10/2018 08:39

Though tbf, I'm not sure how big the A-level classes were. We had a choice between A-levels and IB, and I chose the latter. I think the A-level groups were roughly the same size though.

Ennirem · 18/10/2018 08:39

God @blueshoes, the contempt dripping off you. You really do revel in bringing the stereotype to life don't you?

If you were to look abroad as a result of progressive changes in education policy, I daresay the country would survive it. AFAIC, it isn't about bringing in astonishingly gifted parents like yourself to state PTAs who will save the failing institution from itself Hmm. It's about removing a parallel system that poaches the best teachers. And no I don't blame the teachers. They went into teaching because they want to teach; this is much easier to do well at a private than at a state school (in general, I hasten to add, before all the fantastic state school/shit private school examples start again).

Add a massive salary increase and private company benefits and frankly you'd have to be saintly to resist (some teachers are saintly, mind, and stay in state schools because they believe - rightly in my opinion - that the impact they can have there will be of far higher value even though it will be harder to achieve. Like NHS doctors who could be working privately but choose on principle not to, these people are my heroes).

As I said below, I don't expect individuals to be saints and Do The Right Thing, off their own back, to their own detriment, in their daily lives. We, as a species, in aggregate, are not that good. But we know that the right thing to do is make sure everyone has 'good enough' before we have 'best' (or most of us do). So while it isn't fair to expect an individual teacher with their own wants to think about to turn down a job at a private school, it is not unreasonable to expect people to vote for a government that takes away that temptation.

Cherry, comparing the education system to a fancy car is just crass beyond all measure. Unless of course you think state education should be scrapped altogether and people can only learn to read and write and reason to the extent that they can afford to pay for it? Or to reverse it, that the government should be providing everyone with a basic banger which you can then pay to upgrade should you so choose?

Education is like healthcare. A social good, an essential, fundamental part of what makes society society, rather than just a cluster of humans living alongside each other and scrapping for what they can get. Knowledge and curiosity are partof what make life worth living. Would you say cancer treatment (or indeed any medical care beyond being basically patched up in A&E) is a luxury product, for those who can afford it, like an SUV? I say this incredulously but thinking about it you may very well think it is.

Schnickers · 18/10/2018 08:54

I DID blame the teacher who left part way through dds a level to go to a private school. I thought it was a shitty thing to do. I blamed her, not the private school.

Ennirem · 18/10/2018 08:56

I DID blame the teacher who left part way through dds a level to go to a private school. I thought it was a shitty thing to do. I blamed her, not the private school.

That is pretty shitty. Your poor DD.

Ennirem · 18/10/2018 08:57

If private schools get quoshed they will just reinvent themselves as private tuition academies and parents can pay to send them there after school and in the holidays.

Really?? Do these people not want to spend any time with their children??

Schnickers · 18/10/2018 08:59

Of course. But if kids can board, then kids can do this. This was a serious back up plan in a school I knew a few years ago.

Growingboys · 18/10/2018 09:00

Ha ha HA Bertrand !!!

Re: class sizes, we looked round one of London's top private day schools this time last year and they had 30 to a class. I thought wtf would we be paying for?

Luckily we got into a top state school so are feeling very happy - and lucky.

Schnickers · 18/10/2018 09:01

The worst thing is that my dd has aspergers and had really thought she had bonded with the teacher. She also ran a trip to africa that dd was so excited about going on. Trip was cancelled, then teacher eneded up doing it for the new private school. It still gives me the rage!!!!

dapplegrey · 18/10/2018 09:01

If private schools are abolished then maybe private tuition companies will set up under the auspices of home Ed.
I’m sure there’s some UN rule about not allowing a state monopoly of education but I can’t find it in Google. Also does the UN actually have any power to enforce its rules?

myron · 18/10/2018 09:02

The "quality" of schooling is a lottery by postcode. We have selection regardless of the state/private debate. In almost every case, the most over subscribed/popular school in the area will be the one with the best academic results regardless of whether it's fee-paying or not.

5% of state secondary schools in England are grammars (163/3000) and they are concentrated in a few pockets of the country so are not an option for those of us who live nowhere near.

A decade ago, we lived/rented in Trafford, within walking distance of 2 of the single sex grammars. I would be extremely happy to send my DC to those state schools instead of paying school fees if I could afford to live in that particular area of Hale/Bowdon.

pacer142 · 18/10/2018 09:02

I DID blame the teacher who left part way through dds a level to go to a private school. I thought it was a shitty thing to do. I blamed her, not the private school.

Teachers disappear half way through exam courses all the time. My son's GCSE Engish teacher retired - heaven knows why the school gave him a 2 year GCSE class when they knew he'd be retiring during it! Even though he'd told them a year earlier, they didn't even put up the advert for his replacement until he'd gone, hence my son having a stream of supply teachers for a full term of the GCSE course! His Res Mat teacher disappeared due to stress apparently a few months before the coursework needed to be handed in - they never had a trained res mat teacher for the duration of the coursework, then the school were surprised that the coursework was so poor! People leaving or being absent happens all the time, you can't blame private schools for it.

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