to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

[Foreverexhausted]

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

My dc's comprehensive also has a very diverse catchment, in terms of socio-economic factors and ethnicity.

You have to compare like with like. Generally, the sort of children who go to private schools are the sort of children who are going to do well whatever school they go to - well supported and privileged. And there may be a few state schools which are run by gangs and ridddled with drugs and knives- but not many. And even fewer in the sort of areas where mumsnetters tend to live!

Private doesn't equal better. A middling private school is unlikely to be better than a top state school. It really depends on what your local state options are and what quality of private schools your child could get into and what each individual child might need to thrive.

Its been studied and in most cases outcomes don't differ. The exceptions would be if your local state school options are bad or your DC can get into the very best of the best private schools and would benefit from an extremely academic environment. If you are rich enough to afford private school, on average you are likely to live in an area with decent state schools.

People who think the distribution of quality state education is fair are dreaming. People use their ability to buy expensive houses to access better quality state education-- the premium for houses near good state schools is significant (and has also been studied).

“People use their ability to buy expensive houses to access better quality state education”

Some do. Most don’t.

Ali sounds like your DC is at Alleyns?

Some private schools offer a more holistic approach to learning. Alleyns is a great example of that with more time for recess, a Forest school and great arts and music programme as well as an academic environment that can really stretch the most able pupils.

However, its I the top co-ed prep in the country. If your private options are less stellar, its less likely to be worth the money.

Bertrand its not my opinion. Its been studied... The Sutton Trust actually recommends to get rid of distance as a criteria and make access entirely a lottery. This was trialed in Brighton (I think) and had to be abandoned because of the outcry against it.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. It’s just not as common as Mumsnet likes to believe. If anyone ever says their children are getting a good state education, it’s always dismissed as “postcode selection” because otherwise the “comprehensives are hot beds of drugs and knives and gangs inhabited by knuckle dragging Neanderthals” narrative might need to be questioned.

others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

What a stupid, invertedly snobby thing to say. That is NOT the reason they choose private school and you know it, you just want to sneer at them.

What you are actually saying is that you can't afford private school and you want everyone to make you feel better about it by telling you why they think it's not worth it.

I send my kids to private school (at great personal sacrifice) and I absolutely think it's much better than our local state school and totally worth it.

LondonGirl
The Sutton Trust actually recommends to get rid of distance as a criteria and make access entirely a lottery
The lottery system was scrapped because it was an environmental and logistical disaster.
Kids crossing the city, past four decent schools to get to their one
and families split up

Far better is to properly fund all schools
and have entirely consistent entry criteria across the country

The 6th Form my kids went to has a catchment 45 miles across
a good number of the pupils come in from private schools
but the good results are dominated by the state state school pupils
as only a muppet pays fees in an area with good schools
WinCol boys and Swithuns girls mostly do not come from Hampshire

"I send my kids to private school (at great personal sacrifice) and I absolutely think it's much better than our local state school and totally worth it."
Good. But you do not know what the word "sacrifice" means.

Some private schools offer a more holistic approach to learning. Alleyns is a great example of that with more time for recess, a Forest school and great arts and music programme as well as an academic environment that can really stretch the most able pupils.

I went to Alleyn's. While your comments are true, I would say it is also a very stressful, demanding environment that doesn't suit everyone. I did academically well, degree, Masters, PhD, successful career, but I wouldn't put my DC through the same. It was not much fun for me.

The private schools do have advantages but here the state schools are pretty good so for us the cost benefit just doesn't stack up. It's basically paying £4K a term for a marginally swankier building and more intense sports. I make mine do out of school sports anyway though frankly wonder why I bother as so far this term they have both broken bones

sollyfromsurrey

State school kids swanning out at 3:00pm whilst private may be there until 5:00pm...and then 2 hours of prep after school...that's hard work.

That does sound like hard work. When do they get down time or the chance to actually enjoy being children?

My son may 'swan' out of his state school at 3.15pm, but that gives him the opportunity to see his friends, play football, have decent downtime, and.....you know......be a kid.

I wouldn't put my child in a private school environment even if I had the money to. I want a happy child, not one crushed by the pressure of achieving at a private school to keep their results tables looking good.

My friends child finishes at 5.10pm, but all their prep is done.

I went private, DH went state

Both DC at state grammars

Couldn’t be happier with both their schools and would never consider sending either private

Lots of parents round here pay if their DC don’t pass the 11+ as they don’t want them going to the secondary moderns

Some make big sacrifices to pay

Others don’t and realise not all sec moderns round here are equal

It’s all about how good the state option is - and we value peer group hugely - as well as which school would suit your individual child best

And then value for money in that

I absolutely agree that it depends how good your local state secondary is. If our local comp was shite, we would have either moved, or sent our DSs to private school (grammar would have been an option but the school is quite far, and doesn't have a great reputation).

The only thing I envy of our local private schools are the sports facilities and teaching, as well as the sports competitions.

My local Comp is utterly shite
but I sent my kids to the Comp up the road which is much better
could never afford to move now

It’s horses for courses really.

In our area we are surrounded by excellent private prep schools so we picked one. My priority was the best education in the narrower sense - I will readily admit that their school is far from diverse either ethnically or socially. I will try to take care or their broader education about the world from home as their parent. The school is very local in that most children live fairly nearby.

I have no frame of reference for whether these schools are better or worse than the local state options in terms of grades etc. I cannot see any difference between my friends with similar ages children in good and not so good local state schools.

I can absolutely see why others make a different choice. Do you need to go private to go to a top uni or get a top job? Clearly not. That said, I have seen my friends who started State and could afford it move to private within a few years. I think because they felt their children were not being stretched. I’m not sure really.

Actually, in urban areas you will find that private schools ard a lot more local/in the community thsn state schools. most people rent for a year to fet in a good state school, then miove miles away. Siblings get in after the first child. Nobody lives close to school, most 3 miles plus away (where houses are cheaper). Most of my son’s friends live 15 min walk from us. its a private school.

To answer the OP's question, because I don't think what local private schools sell is worth the money (or worth buying at all, in some cases), and with both DH and I having boarded for part or all of our own schooling, we weren't going to suggest our children did the same.

"most people rent for a year to fet in a good state school"
"Most" people? What utter rubbish.

We haven't decided for certain which way to go for senior school (and if we do it would be a huge stretch and I wouldn't say we can definitely afford it, but it's a possibility we can consider). Howe very, if we go with state it will be for one or other or a combination of the following:

The only local private school that offers genuine value for money and a definitely better education than the local state schools is pretty competitive to get into and I am not sure DC will get a place. If not, the other nearby options seem fairly mediocre educationally. Their main selling point seeming to be (a) your DC won't have to mix with lower echelons of society and (b) we can sort out all the extracurricular endeavours for you to save parents a lot of administration. There are a couple of state comps which deem generally better than that.

Also, the sociological aspect that I don't fundamentally think it's a good idea for children to be educated separately from large segments of the population. Schools should be a melting pot of all backgrounds.

Also it's not really fair that private schools suck so much from the available talent pool of teachers. Obviously there will be some very talented teachers in the state sector whose vocation is to teach all children not just privileged children. However, private schools do have more buying power and can poach teachers who might otherwise have benefited large numbers of students in the state sector to instead benefit only a few in a private school.

There are other arguments in the other direction of course, but they aren't relevant to your question.

People choose state just happen to have a good one at their doorstep and their children are bright and motivated and will do well anywhere. Well, no brainer then though these parents could be paying by postcode anyway

What if you have a mediocre child who needs to be pushed academically and has to hedge their bets with extracurricular activities that are best on site as both parents are working. Hmmmm. I'd love to have amazing holidays with my dcs' school fees but I guess I am going to have to pay to give them the extra leg up.

Parents who use private schools don't just do it for academic results. It is the music, sports, activities, facilities, and all the extras. The excellent private schools (and yes, you get all kinds of private schools, good and not so good, to suit all kinds of children) are in a different league. I doubt a state school would come within sniffing distance, though academically, both can churn out equally good results. It is the extras that a private education gives.

I went to an 'outstanding' comp that was considered one of the best in my city. On the first day of year 7 two mums had a fight on the bus because their daughters had fallen out. DH attended a public school and the difference in the experiences and opportunities we had are insane and we've always agreed that our DC will attend independent schools throughout their education. Yes, my shool still sent a number of pupils to top tier universities but education is a lot more than A Level grades and university destinations in my opinion.

The private schools in our city are amongst the best in the world so they're worth the money for us. If we lived in an area with excellent state schools and mediocre independent schools we'd choose a state school in a heartbeat.

It is the extras that a private education gives.

Each to their own, but I never really understand it when people say stuff like this. It's so easy to supplement a state school with all of the "extras", especially if you're saving thousands of pounds each year on school fees. Unless the parents are incredibly time-poor, and haven't got the time or the inclination to ferry kids around to their various activities, I just don't get it!

Facilities, yes, I do agree that they tend to be better at most private schools. I just don't think posher buildings and nicer sports facilities are worth the thousands of pounds each year that people pay for them. Especially when our state school has access to the infinitely better sports facilities that belong to the university down the road...