Fatshaming

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After a conversation with friends, and with obesity (especially in young people) becoming a bigger crisis than smoking in our society, am I unreasonable to think that as we villanise smoking and drinking, should we fat shame more to encourage people to change their lifestyles. It's certainly worked with reducing smoking rates. Don't attack me (I've lost 2 stone). Just wondering why we target smoking more than fast food?

Yes, but not every obese person has metabolic syndrome. And some may have because of the obesity. Cause and effect.

You cannot say obese people are diseased.

It is interesting that people would take such offence to that. It reads to me that you are very keen to keep the person responsible and blamed for their obesity.

I am saying that the nutritional advice given to people is not correct, and therefore it is difficult to blame that person when it comes down to it.

However, what I would blame people for is blindly following nutritional advice that clearly doesn't work. If you are obese and reading this and just write it off as bollocks and don't bother to take any time to research it, just even to confirm its bollocks, then I would say that is shameful. And not taking personal responsibility.

Yes, but not every obese person has metabolic syndrome. And some may have because of the obesity. Cause and effect.

Obesity is a set of symptoms in a body that is going wrong. They will have insulin issues, they will have high triglyceride level. Obesity is not a weight.

There are a few of us who are metabolically healthy. I am overweight and have great blood results...low cholesterol, good cholesterol and lipid fractions, no evidence of any metabolic syndrome- insulin and HBa1c superb, low BP. It can happen.

Every obese person will have metabolic syndrome. It IS a metabolic syndrome.

You are overweight, not obese necromunda?

Im actually just over 30 so clinically obese. I also swim around 10 km a week .

You can try and deny that obesity is a metabolic syndrome if you like, but then what is the point of even worrying about it? If it doesn't make you ill eventually?

You can also have metabolic syndrome and not be obese.

And no of course by saying obese people are not diseased it's becaus I was to make them personally responsible but it's daft to say some aren't. Of course many people are obese because they eat too much and move too little. To say it's nothing to do with that they are all obese is ludicrous.

I've got up to a good size 16/18 before, probably clinically obese. Because I was sitting on the sofa and eating shite. I wasn't diseased.

www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html

This is the article that got me thinking about all of this. It's old. From here there is a whole world of podcasts, research, reddit groups that allow you to come to your own conclusions about our current dietary advice.

Obesity is not a metabolic syndrome according to the WHO definition. It can be PART of the Metabolic syndrome.
Obesity is a condition that, with others MAY make up the metabolic syndrome.
Metabolic syndrome is a cluster of conditions — increased blood pressure, high blood sugar, excess body fat around the waist, and abnormal cholesterol or triglyceride levels — that occur together, increasing your risk of heart disease, stroke, and diabetes.

To the people who asked what fat shaming in a medical setting looks like, here in Australia there was recently a case where a woman died because every time she sought help for her symptoms, Drs blamed them on her weight rather than actually exploring it and testing her. Turned out to be cancer or something i think, but by the time they took her seriously she was too late for treatment.

This is what really annoys me about the medical profession. Anorexics are classed as having a disordered eating behaviour and given help. Overweight people are greedy and should be shamed (I remember Dr Christian doing exactly this to a woman on one Supersize vs Superskinny when she made a joke about how much she ate because she was so embarrassed at how bad it was. Put me right off him.)

I think the issue here is, though, that anorexics can actually starve themselves to death, and a lot do. Obesity can kill, too, but it takes a lot longer and it's usually due to other complications.

It's simply that anorexia needs treating urgently to save the person's life.

I'm currently obese. I don't like it and I'm doing something about it. There are many boring reasons why I'm where I am, but mostly it's because I have eaten too much and hammered the alcohol. 2 years ago I was just outside the healthy weight for my height but then suffered MH issues that led to low self esteem and further onto overeating and a dependency on alcohol.

I stopped running 2st and 12 months ago due to people fat shaming me while I was out running. I used to run 10k quite easily. Not any more. Interestingly, someone drawing attention to my weight did not boost my already rock bottom self esteem. I have a treadmill now, and I'm slowly building up my distance.

I currently have obstructive sleep apnoea, hiatus hernia and issues with the circulation in my legs. I know that if I don't do anything these will become much worse. So I am working on it. My task is a big one, since I've 4st to shift. Fat shaming me won't help.

but not every one who is fat has metabolic syndrome...many people are fat because they eat too much

metabolic syndrome could be in danger of being the next tag to use to exempt yourself from any self responsibility

as far as the GP or nurse mentioning patients weight..well we are being pushed ever harder by public health england and doH etc to increase our role in health promotion, obesity being one of the four targets for this.
so that is why the GP is asking you at appointments about this issue.
.

but not every one who is fat has metabolic syndrome...many people are fat because they eat too much-

So why do people get fat when they eat too much? What is too much? And does it matter what you eat too much of?

mooncup There is newer research that says that eating tubs of lard is not a good way to go though. That if you are increasing your fat intake, then it is plant based fats that you need to increase, so oils like olive oil and coconut oil. There is an article in The Times today that states you should be eating 150g of carbs a day.There is so much information out there that it is impossible to sift through it. That is added to the issue that many obese people are living in poverty. Telling them to cut cheap staples out of their diet like pasta and potatoes and replace them with meat, Virgin organic coconut oil and green leafy vegetables is probably unhelpful.

'Should I start being horrible to overweight people in the hope it encourages them to lose weight?' When you word it that way, the answer is so clearly no.

mooncup...people get fat when they eat too much because if we put more calories in than are going out our bodies turn those extra to fat.

that is undisputed scientific fact

and it doesnt matter if it is a 'healthy' banana or a ' fattening' biscuit ...if you dont need the calories your body converts it to fat .

I also think calling it a disease, much like alcoholism, or even smoking, or drug addiction, removes personal responsibility

I agree with you and believe that, for some, removing personal responsibility is exactly the point. If something - anything - else can be found to blame it's all too easy to talk yourself into "not being able to do anything about it" (with an obvious exception for the minority with a condition where they really can't do much)

So we continue to see folk insisting that doctors are "horrible" for refusing surgery until weight's been lost and all the rest. Those HCPs may well have good clinical reason for their decision, but yet again it's "unfair" and "fat shaming" because they've said something the patient happens not to like

And in the meantime the obesity epidemic gets worse

*mooncup...people get fat when they eat too much because if we put more calories in than are going out our bodies turn those extra to fat.

that is undisputed scientific fact*

This is actually very much disputed. It is not clear that the laws of thermodynamics (i.e. calories in calories out) is correct.

Someone eating 5000 calories of pizza and someone eating 5000 calories of steak - balancing out their state of calorie useage - would they put on the same amount of weight?

The answer is very very much disputed.

The body does not seem to comply with simple thermodynamics (CICO) because it metabolises different food groups differently (carbs turn into glucose, protein into amino acids and fat into fatty acids)

A calorie does not seem to be a calorie.

To quote what insulin does (produced by the pancreas in response to eating carbs/sugar):

"Insulin is the hormone that tells our cells to pick up glucose from the bloodstream. It is also the major energy storage hormone in the body. It tells our cells to store energy, either as glycogen or fat"

Insulin plays a big part in laying down fat stores in the cells. Insulin literally regulates the body and decides whether or not the extra glucose from food gets stored as fat.

So anyway, it is disputed because people who are eating diets that are constantly spiking their insulin may not be using the stored fat they have for energy and this means at a day to day level, they will be constantly hungry - and the availability of snacking makes this possible. This is also why fasting is such an important thing - if you fast you starve your body of instant glucose, and so it has to start using the stored fat as energy. Most people these days are eating every few hours - we usually have 2-3 hours of stored glycogen, so are never going into 'fat burning' mode.

Anyway, the calories in calories out hypothesis is very much disputed!

and it doesnt matter if it is a 'healthy' banana or a ' fattening' biscuit ...if you dont need the calories your body converts it to fat

That is not true. It does matter. Although I would say that a banana is pretty high in sugar and will spike your insulin so in many ways those items you have given are very similar.

If you say broccolli vs a biscuit - same calories, it would be a more reasonable comparison.

So anyway, it is disputed because people who are eating diets that are constantly spiking their insulin may not be using the stored fat they have for energy and this means at a day to day level, they will be constantly hungry - and the availability of snacking makes this possible. This is also why fasting is such an important thing - if you fast you starve your body of instant glucose, and so it has to start using the stored fat as energy. Most people these days are eating every few hours - we usually have 2-3 hours of stored glycogen, so are never going into 'fat burning' mode.

Just to clarify this:

Person who is obese eating a high carb diet, insulin is spiked when they eat, they then have 2-3 hours energy available and the excess is stored as fat, once that is used up or stored, they become hungry (leptin) because the body is looking for more glucose, they snack (even on low calorie fruit because that will spike the insulin) and the cycle keeps repeating and the body is not going into fat burning mode.

Obese people will genuinely be hungry because of this process. The body is seeking more glucose because that is how it is fueled. The body always takes glucose over any other source of energy available because it is the fast burner. The sugar hit is real.

However, if you start to fuel your body differently, you don't rely on glucose, you start to see shifts in appetite. Fasting will do that. Low Carb will do that. Plant based will do that. Low GI food will do that.

mooncup you have been watching and reading too much pseudoscience/nutrition on the internet