To think school success is more about the child than the parent

[Aigle]

Only one child, so it's hard to judge, but he is barely trying (Y10). Now I am being criticised for not enforcing a routine or "making it happen" ... and I accept that I am not the strictest of parents, but DS simply refuses to take his homework or revision (currently none) seriously, he simply will not do it. I'm thinking there must be families where the parent tries to establish/impose the same rules for each child, but one child will not cooperate despite having similar ability? Some parents have the view that if the child fails it's because the parent fails, but AIBU to think that sometimes it's simply because the (capable) child has a mind of its own?

OP has your son always had this attitude to homework or is it new?

My siblings and I did well academically. Our parents never checked our homework. They set expectations in that we knew we were expected to do well and go to uni but they weren't hands on. I don't think people were so much back then (late 70s / 80s).

In my class we felt sorry for the girl whose dad ensured she spent all her spare time doing homework. She was top of the class in the sense she was always on top of things but ended up not going to uni and marrying young.

Sometimes I have thought I could have done better with more structure from my parents but essentially I was conscientious, if not an overly hard worker. Also things came fairly easily to me and I could rely a lot on my good memory. But a lot of the time my mum thought I was in my room working was spent day dreaming to music.

We encourage and support our own kids a lot. One hates making the effort so success with her has been very variable. She's very demand avoidant and sanctions / rewards don't really work. The other is conscientious and fairly focused. She stresses over homework but always does it. She doesn't need sanctions or rewards for working because she basically wants to do the right thing and is quite interested in a lot of what she does.

A parent can provide the right environment but a lot is up to the child.

LisaSimpsonsbff - I did a double-take reading your comment because you could be describing my family. My mum thought she'd aced parenting until she had my younger brother. He's grown-up into a very chilled, pleasant adult though.

What routine are you following? Can you sit with him/have him do his homework in the kitchen so you can keep an eye on him?

OP- Is it possible he has ADHD?

I do think parenting comes into it though. There must be some way he can enjoy learning and it's quite worrying that at such a young age he doesn't appear to have a passion which you could use to help motivate him to do his studies. Maybe this is what you need to look into first- whether he has a serious lack of confidence/ anxiety/ mental condition that's causing this. And also try find something that he enjoys to do as a hobby.

I don't think it's true that only parents that have obedient or submissive children can get their child to do things. It's habits created from a very young age that allow a parent to work with even the strongest willed child. I'm one of 5, and my youngest sister is the feistiest person I know. The day she tried to stamp up the stairs and slam her door shut in a strop was the only time she did it - it wasn't a good night for her lol. Our parents just didn't stand for disobedience or rudeness and it's just the way things were regardless of our personalities.

A bit like the girl sundance mentioned, there was a girl at my school whose parents were very pushy about grades. She got straight A’s the whole way through, got into a good university, but had a nervous breakdown in her first year and had to move home. She is now a make up artist, which is what she really wanted to do all along.

You can definitely push too far.

My DD didn’t need much encouragement to work hard for GCSEs apart from occasionally being booted off the tv. She did very well. Ds is year 10 and while probably even brighter than her he has not got the innate work ethic but he is jammy and seems to get by and do well on less work. I encourage him to do his homework, but that includes no access to gaming sites before 8pm so he has to get on with homework once he’s had a snack after school.
I would always encourage good working environment but ultimately it’s the child’s motivation that will get them through. If they deem their social life more important than GCSEs and they need to work hard to do well then they prob won’t reach potential.

Nope. I fostered a girl who couldn't do anything at 7, such was the neglect. No reading/writing at all.

She's now at uni. We put everything in place to make it possible for her to achieve.

I’d (genuinely) love to know how long she was with you and what you put in place.

Adopted DD has been with us for 4 years but is really struggling and I find myself getting frustrated that after 4 years practice she still, for example, doesn’t know her two times table (she’s now 9)

I’m conscious that making learning ‘fun’ and ‘not a big thing’ comes easily to some parents, but it certainly doesn’t to me.

I have a friend who's ds is like this. Maybe worse (school refuser). Bright as a button.

The issue is that he's deeply unhappy. It's taking a long time to unpick why andnto change things, but his apathy and attitude are symptoms of something bigger. Do you think that could be the case for your son? I think we forgetting how major everything is when you're a young teen. Things that we wouldn't necessarily see as big are HUGE to a 14 yo.
Either way, I hope he and you can work this out because the reverse of it is that at 14 you can't always see what a luxury a decent education and home life are and how important they are for the rest of your life.

Hmm I'm not sure. I barely tried as a teenager and I do think my parents could have done more to help.

In my case I just didn't care. I didn't think about the future, when I did it was too late. I was probably quite depressed too.

There’s a lot of parental blame on here - both from adults who still resent their parents and what they did and from parents with school age children

I’d agree that teachers kids often do well academically

I’d also agree a lot of it is about the child’s temperament

I’m a parent that wants to instil the importance of hard work but I’m not a parent that will rule a teen with an iron rod to the point of breakdown

There are bigger things in life than how many A*s you or your kids get

IME most of the straight A* people I know don’t necessarily end up the happiest or most materially comfortable

What I want is a mix of success and joy - and to build resilience in my kids, as that to me is one of the most valuable skills/qualities they can possess

I totally agree Taffeta although to build resilience implies trying and failing and trying again, or taking risks and moving outside your comfort zone. If a child is being lazy or not trying they are not building resilience. I am not suggesting I have the answers, I don't.

I agree that parents can be blamed (or praised) when the child's behaviour is down to their temperament. I also do think that the overall environment can have a impact. My kids are hard working but they are at schools where working to your potential is expected, also as parents we expect it. As a family we are fun and relaxed, our family motto is:"laid-back weirdos" I can't remember where that came from but I think one of the kids had to summarize their family. As long as my kids are trying their best there is no problem. Laziness is not allowed, mainly because they couldn't survive and keep up at school if they were lazy.

I came from a very compromised background and struggled to fulfill my potential, so I believe in making the most of your opportunities.

I totally agree Taffeta although to build resilience implies trying and failing and trying again, or taking risks and moving outside your comfort zone. If a child is being lazy or not trying they are not building resilience

There are many ways to build resilience

The things that have built resilience in my DC I wouldn’t wish on anyone

But they are stronger for it

Those who have led charmed, managed lives and/or being naturally bright, pretty and/or and have never had to handle any adversity may struggle as adults with resilience though

I’m not saying they shouldn’t try so that they fail and build resilience!

I do think school success is more about the child than the parent yes.

Anyone who has a child with specific learning difficulties or SEN knows how many hours they can spend with their child behind the scenes supporting them with basic stuff, and they STILL aren't able to do the things their peers find relatively easy.

And I'm not just talking about academic stuff, but life skills like organisation, time management, ability to concentrate, ability to complete work in time available etc.

Stuff like this is so hard for some children, and by secondary school age they KNOW IT and have such low self esteem.

It's very fine line to support them with homework without appearing to nag or give them a hard time and demoralising them further.

When my DD was 14 she stopped getting up for school. I would talk to her, beg her, get angry, bribe her, all sorts, nothing made her get up for school. Every day I would phone the absence line and explain and ask for help. School threatened to prosecute me every day for 'withholding access to services that my DD was entitled to'. I would beg them to please snd someone round to help get her up and to school. I would send her to the bus and she would ring me saying she missed it, I would ring school and say she's in the next village at the bus stop, can you send the truancy officer to pick her up? NO we are going to prosecute you... Eventually, after tow years of this she was 16 and that was that, she had no qualifications and asa family we had had no support. She's an employed young adult now but regrets not going to school as she'd have a better job now with her brain power. School failed my DD in a big way, she was a capable student with bags of potential but one day decided to challenge everyone and I believe that with support from school she would have gone back but as they put all responsibility on me and I was unable to physically get her to school she missed her final [important] two years.

We just started with good habits very early on. Always had a structured day, meals in the dining room, certain times of day for crafty sessions, reading every bedtime. It was easy because me and OH are like that - we like order! As the years passed, we evolved, so that he had a specific time-slot for his homework where there were no distractions, i.e. his own work space without the TV etc. and we always put in extra sessions for revision for any tests etc. By the time he started secondary, he had a regimented routine, so increasing the time spent on homework/revision for tests etc just slotted in. It would never occur to him to watch TV or his Ipad at 6pm, because that was his homework time, straight after tea. Throughout secondary years, that has just evolved into good habits, i.e. concentrating on one thing at a time - when he's doing homework, he's concentrating on that and that alone - we facilitate that by not causing any distractions. Likewise his "down" time, i.e. youtubes, FIFA, etc is his own time for chilling out. OH and I have always separated out activities, i.e. a time for this, a time for that and we've passed that onto DS. It simply wouldn't occur to him to try to do his homework whilst watching TV or his ipad. Because of the structure and encouragement right from the earliest possible time, he's always been on top of things, so has never had to "catch up" or struggle etc. I'd say that's a 50:50 split as to reason. As parents, we've encouraged him and instilled good habits and a willingness to learn, but as the child, DS has gone along with that, never rebelled, etc. I don't think we've been particularly "pushy" - what we've done is created an environment where he can perform and made sure there were no obstacles in his way.

@A001

Adopted DD has been with us for 4 years but is really struggling and I find myself getting frustrated that after 4 years practice she still, for example, doesn’t know her two times table (she’s now 9)

How amazing you are taking on a DD who has probably had a very difficult start in life. I can understand your frustration, but don't take it too heart. She is probably frustrated too.

You will hopefully make a huge difference to the way her life will turn out compared to how it could have turned out, whether she gets good grades or not. You are a fantastic person remember that.

It isn't one or the other. It's both, and other things. It's home attitude to learning and rules/routines throughout the child's life, it's the influence of peers and media on the child, it's the child ability, it's the child's interests and motivation, it's the school's ability to engage rhe child, it's how all parts of that system give and receive support.

If any one part of that (child, parent/family, school) system doesn't fit and work well with the others, then something, or more than something, needs to change.

I was trying to draft a post to say what others have said well above but getting a child to do their homework doesn’t start with getting them to do their homework. It’s starts with teaching them responsibility and cooperation and rewards for effort from the moment they are born. If you’ve skipped those lessons you will struggle to get a child to suddenly do their homework and study.

Ive brought my 2 up to understand that education is a privilege. Any time they dont want to take advantage of that privilege and earn it through hard work, they can leave and get a job (and in the absence of paid options can work for me). But there's no option of slacking around and expecting to be kept in comfort whilst you do it. Being carried is for babies.

Eventually, after tow years of this she was 16 and that was that, she had no qualifications and asa family we had had no support. She's an employed young adult now but regrets not going to school as she'd have a better job now with her brain power. School failed my DD in a big way, she was a capable student with bags of potential but one day decided to challenge everyone and I believe that with support from school she would have gone back but as they put all responsibility on me and I was unable to physically get her to school she missed her final [important] two years

Education doesn’t just stop the day they turn 16/18/21. If she’s realised her mistake and is now motivated, there’s nothing to stop her completing access courses, resitting exams.

In lots of ways i think unmotivated teens are better going back to education when they’re a bit older and more mature. Friend of mines son left school at 16 and got a job. At 25 he realised his potential, did his courses, went to law school and is now a successful barrister.

I wanted to do the same- no career plan, knew my grades didn’t reflect my ability. I wanted to work for a few years while i figured stuff out. Family pressured me into going to uni- they said if i left education I’d never go back. So i have an excellent degree which is completely useless for what I ended up wanting to do.

the message is reinforced from every direction

That's the key isn't it. Parental push won't achieve much if there's no "push" from the school and peers. It's got to be an equal 3 way split - parents, school and child - you really will struggle otherwise.

My best pal is currently going through this. Her two eldest did homework when asked, even went to tutors etc with just a little bit of encouragement, pretty laid back and amiable, the occasional wobble but dfriend would have them at the table doing homework after school, help them get organised for exams etc, no drama. Her youngest is a whole different kettle of fish and after nearly being excluded she has had to resort to bribing (yes BRIBING) him with 50 quid per gcse result so he can buy some motorbike thing he wants. She's literally desperate for him to motivate himself and nothing else works. So yes I think different kids respond differently and it's not always the parents fault

BlueBug45 - he's always resisted homework and 'sabotaged' attempts to get him to do it. Obviously when he was younger it was easier to insist that it be done, and with a lot of stress and aggro he would do it. This is one of the reasons I'm thinking so much must depend on the child.

Thank you JeanClaudeJackety.