To think school success is more about the child than the parent

[Aigle]

Only one child, so it's hard to judge, but he is barely trying (Y10). Now I am being criticised for not enforcing a routine or "making it happen" ... and I accept that I am not the strictest of parents, but DS simply refuses to take his homework or revision (currently none) seriously, he simply will not do it. I'm thinking there must be families where the parent tries to establish/impose the same rules for each child, but one child will not cooperate despite having similar ability? Some parents have the view that if the child fails it's because the parent fails, but AIBU to think that sometimes it's simply because the (capable) child has a mind of its own?

Hmmmm don’t know... My older brother and I were both slack; him more so I think. I got very mediocre marks and he got dreadful marks. My sister worked like a Trojan and got mediocre marks the first time round, but kept going back and retaking a levels, doing access courses. She’s now very successful with a lot of qualifications, whereas dbro and I are doing alright but not super successful.

Dh’s whole family did really well at school etc. All straight A’s. One of their parents is a teacher and I’ve always noticed that among friends and acquaintances, the people who have parents who are / were teachers tend to do well at school.

He doesn't have any, because there is very little he wants. He does not want any game / clothes / outing or food, so can't be bribed. Yes, I could turn the WiFi off, but he would have nothing to do and would bear it (that's his character) he still wouldn't do revision. And more importantly, he has nothing else to do, and friends don't seem to meet in person in his groups. He might watch TV, but he never watched much. I don't feel like making him do absolutely nothing, and on the occasions I have tried end up in a bad way (mentally) for a few days. I know the logic of routines, and pushing, but personally I can't seem to enforce it.

Thanks for this Lisa Simpson. This is what I was thinking, that many of the parents that insist it was all down to their 'strong parenting skills' have in fact been blessed with semi-cooperative children.

When you were slack, as a student, do you remember your parents pushing you, and if so why didn't you listen? Did you not believe the future consequences? I pushed myself so this kind of slack motivation is quite incomprehensible to me.

Ds1 is never out of trouble and ds2 is never in it. Ds1 struggles to attain academically and ds2 excels. If it's all down to parenting does that make me a shit one or a great one? Should I be beating myself up or congratulating myself? Hmmmm.

I could turn the WiFi off, but he would have nothing to do and would bear it (that's his character) he still wouldn't do revision

So make sure he comes home from school sits down with his homework and stays there until bedtime. If he doesn't do his homework/revise then he will literally do nothing all day every day. I dont think many people will believe he will be ok with that.

I imagine he knows you always give in...

Thank you for the input. I am definitely not the friend type parent, but the sanctions I can impose (explained in another reply) are very limited. Carrots only work if the kid wants carrots; using a stick when the kid is well behaved and makes a minimal effort seems harsh. I know some parents will do that anyway, become very overbearing on a slacking child, it all depends on the family dynamics (how many other kids are around, how much joy there is in the family, the nature of the kid). It's surely not one size fits all.

Me? Yes, I remember my parents both tried to push me to do more.

I mean, when I say slack, I did get like B,B,D at a level and went on to a really good university... I definitely should have worked a lot harder there too though.

I ask myself why a lot and I wonder if it’s to do with my dad being very successful. I think we were maybe in his shadow a little and probably a bit spoiled with material stuff when we were teenagers. Not so much before that as my parents had less money when we were younger. I think I also had a live for the moment mentality as a teenager... or maybe not exactly that, but I think I had a constant need to be with friends and bond with them. Studying didn’t really provide that. Obviously I should have thought more long term. I was also not very pragmatic and was a bit of romantic then, so I thought I could spend my life as a struggling writer in Paris, smoking gaulloises and looking pensive... all filmed in black & white of course... Never thought about money.

Very understandable. In fact if DS had that kind of distraction (social/Paris) it would make more sense to me. Merci.

I now live in a small terrace in the real life equivalent of Privet Drive in Harry Potter! I have written nothing since I was at university - and even I didn’t really like what I wrote then ! I did live in Paris for a year though. And I did smoke, but vogues and Marlboros rather than Gaulloises. Played havoc with my fitness though, so soon knocked that on the head.

using a stick when the kid is well behaved and makes a minimal effort seems harsh. I know some parents will do that anyway, become very overbearing on a slacking child, it all depends on the family dynamics

Sorry but this sounds like excuses to me.

My eldest was a horror; very clever boy who just couldn't be bothered to work at secondary school. The more you pushed him the less he would do. His O levels went from A for Eng Lang (no revision needed) to CSE grade 2. He started 3 A levels, dropped one because he couldn't be bothered, was late for his final exam. He knew what he wanted to do, but couldn't start until he was 19, so 6th Form was just to fill in time.
Has done very well in his chosen career and has now taken early retirement on a very good pension.

I agree Thisreallyisafarce. Very easy to say you can’t do something because of x,y,z than it is to actually try and see what happens in reality. I feel that the OP thinks that to give discipline, you have to be a shouty parent. Doesn’t have to mean that. But clear rules explained to the child from the beginning and a calm but consistent following up of the breaking of those rules can work wonders. Children feel safer with clear and fair boundaries and children who feel safe, perform better.

Has done very well in his chosen career and has now taken early retirement on a very good pension.
That sounds like he did well despite his lack of hard work at school, due to the job security and generous pensions that fellow baby boomers have enjoyed. Sadly, I don’t think OP’s DS should rely on that.

Define “support”.

My mother was all about the importance of academics. Discouraged hobbies when they started taking time away from school and homework. Knew i was clever amd used all sorts of carrots/sticks to try and motivate me to knuckle down and work.

To everyone else I couldn’t be bothered and just didn’t do the work. When the problem actually was the utterly shite teaching. I was very intelligent, yes, but I was never taught how to construct an essay correctly, or exam technique. I thought you had to memorise the entire 2 years of gcse work for the exam- consequently i was completely overwhelmed when it came to 6 weeks revision for 16 exams and just gave up.

My mother had left school at 14 and never written an essay or sat an exam. As supportive as she tried to be, it was not the support i needed.

It wasn’t until I got to uni and a completely different learning enviromment that things clicked.

You can encourage or force a child to sit in their bedroom and study, but if they don’t have the tools they simply won’t be able to.

It absolutely is about the parent creating the right environment and also the right attitude to learning early on. I loved school and needed no pushing to do my work, so my parents essentially left me to organise myself, my brother was less keen but just as academically able, he was given former boundaries about when it needed to be done, no tv until I've seen your homework etc, and both of us were taught from a very young age that education equals opportunity, my parents are both working class and had few educational opportunities at a young age, my dad left school at 14 and worked long hours all of his working life, my mum at 16 with just secretarial qualifications, both progressed to some degree in their jobs but neither consider them careers. I remember from a young age my dad saying especially to my brother, don't end up in my shoes you're bright and you can use that to your advantage you don't want to end up working sixty hours a week to support a family you don't get to spend as much time with as you would like. My mum used to tell me that women can do anything they want and that for her generation they had two options secretarial/childcare work or SAHM she's done all of these things at various points and i know she has done regrets. DB and I both knew they'd worked bloody hard in often thankless jobs to provide us with more choices than they had. We respected that and it was never really an option to just throw everything away.

DC1 refused to study, DC2 has been known to refuse to stop studying.
I don't take blame or credit for either of them. YANBU.

That sounds like he did well despite his lack of hard work at school, due to the job security and generous pensions that fellow baby boomers have enjoyed.

I must be missing something. @eddiemairswife, is your son 54+yo?

DS1 works hard but isn't academic, DS2 works hard but is very academic. I don't credit myself with their success as it's mostly just chance. I do credit myself with a little of their work ethic; both work hard simply because it's what they've always done.

However, praise and encouragement work well with them, so I've no idea what I'd do if they were 'meh' types who didn't give a toss.

He will be 56 at the end of the month.

Just about a baby boomer, I suppose.
Millennials will be as well off for pensions as baby boomers, one report alleges! It's GenX that will suffer.

Bit of both really isn't it? If I had to guess based on my peers though I would say the majority comes down to parenting and also the parents level of education. I think you need to instill good habits from the very beginning of their schooling and take a vested interest, it's much harder starting a few years in when habits are ingrained but with enough effort it can be done.

Perhaps I'm wrong OP but you sound a bit defeatist? But perhaps you're just worn down from it all...

We were expected to do our best. That didn't mean that we had to be top of the heap, just that we were expected to put effort in to get the best results possible for us.

OP, some of your comments do make me think you could encourage your son a bit more. I don't think having expectations around homework is incompatible with 'how much joy there is in the family'! I can see that you find it hard if your son's attitude to homework is completely different than yours was at the same age. You sound quite self-motivated, perhaps not needing as much help to get started as your son does.

Who has said that you are not enforcing/making it happen - the school?

In secondary school we were not allowed any TV etc mon-Thur. I wasn’t allowed out with friends on Friday evenings either.
We had to go to our rooms and do homework/study.
This was all before the internet. And I can guarantee I spent about 10% of the time working and 90% lying on my bed, day dreaming, counting the flowers on the wallpaper....anything but working! We were all the same.
We all did well, some kids just aren’t studious enough.
My own are he same. We ensure homework is done, and ‘make’ them revise. But I think they day dream!

Is your son ...ok? As you’ve described him he sounds despondent, is he just on his phone all day? I’d probably want himto be doing something even if it wasnt revision. Id be worried about what your DS is going to do once he leaves school - as I constantly have to bang on about ( as I work in a school), leaving with the best GCSEs you can get gives you options. School is about equipping yourself to have options once you leave. He has to be in education or training til he’s 18 - what is he going to do, he’ll have work experience coming up etc. So it’s be a good opportunity to talk about it.

I think if he is at risk of falling behind completely you will need to do something unless you will be able to support him after school, else what is he going to do?

Also @eddiemairswife we are way past the point where buckling down once your a bit older will work out well for anyone who isn’t from the kid of family who can pay your rent and get you internships.