Social services taking babies away...

[lookattheshorts]

From mother's with previous mental health issues? Is this true?

Lots of my friends and family seem to be sharing the same story, the one of Kerry Blackaller. Has anyone else heard of her story?

I'll do my best to link the appropriate sources.

www.change.org/p/kerry-blackaller-help-get-lyla-blu-home-where-she-belongs-to-her-heart-broken-mommy-kerry/u/23400921

Are people being unreasonable to say social services do sometimes take children away when it isn't actually the right thing?

I know Party - be the post was about children being removed - adoptions doesn't happen without a lot more evidence and legal proceedings

and yes the care system is shit - I agree - which is why no one thinks it's the best options and happily places kids in it without serious consideration

The case mentioned aside, babies have been removed from some mother’s with enduring and severe mental health problems for decades.

I know of a woman with schizophrenia who spent most of her life in a locked ward in psychiatric unit who had three babies removed at birth in the mid to late nineties before being sterilised. She still believed she could get pregnant and wanted a baby more than anything. She would have posed an extremely high risk to a child and couldn’t be left unsupervised with babies. Mid nineties to the 2000s this was fairly common practice, so also was termination when the patient didn’t fully understand and wasn’t able to consent.

Some people with mental health illnesses will spend all of their lives in residential care. A child can’t be raised in a psychiatric unit or care home. There is no other option then for them to be taken from their birth parent. Quite often both parents have psychiatric illnesses or the father has sexually exploited the mother. If grandparents or siblings aren’t willing to help raise the child there is no other option than foster care or adoption.

The most babies I’ve heard having been removed at birth from a mentally ill woman was five. I’ve also heard of eight terminations (one woman).

I quite agree, @ghostyslovesheets there have been too many tragedies. And not necessarily children dying, some children just grow up permanently damaged by their early experiences. (I was such a child, as were my siblings.) You only need to read the Stately Homes thread on the Relationships board.

I don't envy social workers having to make this call. They do know that taking a child into care is damaging in itself, but sometimes it's very much the lesser of two evils. The saying 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' springs to mind. Because it's always the social workers who are blamed.

Evidence can be manipulated ghosty

So what are the mental health issues she had to cause this? They must have been incredibly severe and complex. I have bipolar, BPD (properly diagnosed), I still have my kids and ss declared no case to worry about.
There doesn't seem to be much credibility to this story as it stands.

Less often now people with MH will spend their lives institutionalised as we have moved away from that and into care in the community. Sadly you usually hear when it goes terribly wrong and people aren't sectioned and found beds in hospitals in emergency situations but mostly you don't hear about it as it might be your friend, relative or neighbour being supported by a CPN in their own home and our talking therapies and drug treatments have improved. Mostly... people with MH can live relatively normal lives having their illness managed from home so they can have families of their own

I am sure it can - on both sides

but generally SW tend to not have the time to devise elaborate fairy tales - it's easier all round NOT to remove children!

Evidence can be manipulated ghosty

To such a degree that it gets past the scrutiny of the courts and the parents' legal representative?

Nrxt you'll be telling us about the bonus payments that social workers get for removing blue eyed blonde babies for adoption.

I'd also like to know what your professional expertise is that allows you to make these kind of claims.

Meh I lost count of the way things were worded that weren't accurate in my case. The nice SW had to rewrite whole report from gun ho one but she couldn't delete anything so it still exists somewhere in history on my records- but rewritten with a totally different perception of things

I'm grateful that things turned out the way they did. But I do think I've been very lucky

Yes, emperor

ghosty

It isn’t about “fairy stories.” There are ways of presenting information, that’s all.

It isn’t about “fairy stories.” There are ways of presenting information, that’s all.

You have literally not got the first clue...

I was left with my abusive parents because social services deliberated a lot; and "weren't certain". That meant they didn't remove me; or when they did, it was very temporary.

I spent my whole childhood wanting to be taken away; and a lot of my teens trying to find out why I hadn't been and get my sisters taken into care to save them, instead.

They don't do it lightly. Someone always loses in these cases. It should not be the child.

Sigh. Trust me emperor, I have. I have sat in meetings where parents with limited intelligence have had what they said taken out of context and the original meaning twisted.

I am not claiming this always happens, but I have known it.

Isn’t it healthier if we concede there are miscarriages of justice rather than blindly insist SS are never ever wrong?

The woman with the three babies removed at birth that I mentioned did live in a “Care in the Community” setting in the times she wasn’t in hospital. It was like a family home with a small number of residents. She wasn’t institutionalised, it was an excellent home. But it was no place for a child to grow up and she would never, ever have been a safe person to leave alone with a child.

My parents are Psychiatrists. Even now “Care in the Community” doesn’t often mean living fairly independently in their own flat with carers checking up on them twice a day etc making sure they get their meds. There’s still a huge number of younger people (registration 18 - 65) who live in 24/7 care home type settings because they will never be able to live even semi-independent lives no matter how much rehab money and STAR worker support is thrown at them. These homes still fall under Care in the Community and are completely unsuitable for a child to grow up in.

Some people with enduring mental health illness are able to live in supported housing and have help from SS to bring up their children. In my experience the children have often had a spell in Care before being reunited with their parent. Sometimes it’s up to 5 years before the parent is well enough to look after them - rehabilitation takes a lot of time! I’ve only ever personally seen this to be the case with children over the age of 10. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen with babies or toddlers but I do think it’s easier to place the child back with their parent when they themselves are a bit more independent and able to speak up to a social worker etc if they feel unsafe.

Honestly perhaps if I'd been less educated myself I wouldn't have challenged things that were written in the first report and I'd be in a different situation today

They weren't only not accurate, they were false... because sWs are NOT MH professionals and can misdiagnose (they shouldn't make any diagnosis at all but rely on MH professionals to provide it) my gun ho one didn't... she'd heard the word "psychosis" and used it. Totally false. I never had psychosis.

Her mistakes somehow led to me being diagnosed with bipolar on a GP record... again, I've never had or fitted the diagnosis of bipolar. Me being me... I noticed and didn't assume because someone said so that I was. So the GP writes and gets told what my actual diagnosis is and it's amended.

But as I say... I notice, and somehow had the strength to challenge the untrue things one SW decided to document as fact

Isn’t it healthier if we concede there are miscarriages of justice rather than blindly insist SS are never ever wrong?

Is it healthier to concede that no one is perfect; and it is much better to incorrectly safeguard a child then to potentially put one at risk?

Separating a child from her parents should only be done in extreme circumstances, IMO.

And it is.

There are multiple unknowns here. Every case is different, but to say they would take a child away if it is clear they were in harm is not always true! Let’s not forget that multiple child abuse cases go missed daily due to social services not doing their job to the best of their ability.
In my personal experience I am now a guardian to my niece and nephew who I fought to have removed from their mother for years, as from her own admission she has bipolar which she doesn’t bother taking her meds for!
It took 6 years for social services to finally remove them and honestly they should of done it when my niece was born! (As much as I love my nephew) the social services we’re lazy throughout, my niece suffered from horrible emotional and mental set backs due to the lack of care on her mother’s part. They were finally removed from their mothers care when they both broke their legs, and the excuse given doctors believed was not consistent with the brake. It took 6 YEARS for Social to finally do something.
Now this girl has openly admitted she suffered from mental health and is tackling it - for someone who is working on their self and caring for their child in the best way they can, they deserve a chance (support should have been an option)
Forceful adoption is wrong, for a child to be removed that easily when I had to fight like crazy to protect my precious niece and nephew for 6 long years - if their waste of space mother was given multiple chances then this woman at least deserves a chance to prove herself.

Everyone has opinions but to say she deserved it or social wouldn’t have done it if wasn’t serious, need to check themselves. You need facts before you trash someone!

I work in mental health, many of my clients have been under section etc and not had babies removed.

I agree that social services do get it wrong sometimes however the problem is they are never allowed to present their side of the story to the public.

One of my old clients had their child removed because they werent able to prioritise the child's needs and house was health and safety nightmare etc. She was unable to see the issue so aouldnt engage with services, etc. If the worries had clicked with her she could have fixed it and kids would have stayed. However because she never understood why it was such a risk they couldnt trust her to implement changes. She loved those kids like anything but she would still tell you the situation was fine when it really wasnt.

Often the people who understand social services concerns can then adress them and dont make press but the people who think they did nothing wrong will be the ones will be the ones who cant make it right, lose their kids and subsequently be more vocal about it because they just dont get it.

I had automatic social services involvement due to my MH condition. It's not exactly common and v complex and ironically, it's from persistent & ongoing abuse from attachment figures in my childhood. I also had a couple of comorbids, so complex situation.

However, I was 100% committed to giving my daughter a completely different experience. I had requested treatment from MH services. I had requested outreach from our children's centre. I asked social services what I could be doing better...

The answer? That I was doing better than many mums without the same issues!

Then, my psydoc had to take a long leave; she herself was unwell and needed 4 months for treatment. I requested additional outreach, just in case. The outreach worker had never heard of my MH condition, when I explained she panicked and referred me to social services... again. Sigh. I had to undergo an entire assessment, all over again. Explain my condition again, how I was managing it, what my treatment plan was, what my contacts were, how I was coping. They gave me a number in case I needed further support.

The outreach worker wasn't satisfied! She thought I was a danger to my child because of my diagnosis. She rang up social services and pretended she had new information, citing an incident I'd talked about from my childhood (it wasn't new, I'd already told my psych and the services.) But they had to do yet another assessment...

The thing that stood out most for me? How non-judgmental and encouraging they were. It was obviously embarrassing and terrifying the first couple of times, but by the time the social worker left, I felt reassured and comforted. I WISH someone had reported my parents, with all my heart, so being reported in itself is not a bad thing; it could help save more children. But it's still not something you feel proud of happening.

Yet, they checked everything politely, kindly, and were not at all judge-y. They asked for details on how I manage my MH condition and really learned from what I said! The media image of my condition is that of a horror movie trope, a deluded killer. But I'm obviously not that and of all the people to judge me for it, social services were the one group who absolutely didn't but who wanted to listen to how I personally manage, and look after my daughter. Then checked in with everyone relevant to make sure that was true. And offered support with anything I might want help with.

If this person's child is being taken away, it has nothing to do with her MH condition, but her responsibility as a parent. If she is taking care of herself and her child, they have nothing to worry about. There aren't enough places for kids as it is, the last thing they would be doing is taking children for no reason!

@immortalmarble

But that begs the question, what are these extreme circumstances? Who is to define them? Do we wait until children are in hospital having been battered to an inch of their lives? Or until a child discloses SA? (They don't do that mostly, because young children don't understand that it's not normal. I didn't.)

The investigation process doesn't happen overnight. Mostly children are kept in foster care until the final court hearing, and the process takes up to a year. That's where a lot depends on the competence of individual social workers, but also on the ability of parents to understand the process. DH and I are both educated to degree level and it was a challenge for us to speak up for ourselves. It's hardly surprising that some parents feel like the odds are stacked against them.

for someone who is working on their self and caring for their child in the best way they can, they deserve a chance (support should have been an option)

What are you talking about? She's at the end of care proceedings. She will have had support offered and if the best way she can isn't good enough that's just the way it is.

Forceful adoption is wrong, for a child to be removed that easily

Were you in court? Have you read the records? No? So how the hell do you know the child was removed easily? For goodness sake.

Lizzie, you know as well as I do that frequently SS remove one child and leave others with the parents.

That is not extreme circumstances. EC are - no child should be alone with these parents, they are directly or indirectly dangerous.

If you want to know more about removal and forced adoption then I would really recommend you listen to the adoption podcast from the bbc. It is very informative.