To think that "gay cake row" verdict is a victory for common sense?

[MaxDArnold]

The UK Supreme Court has ruled that a Belfast bakery was not obliged to bake a cake emblazoned with the slogan "support gay marriage" and over turned a £500 damages award over turned on it.

For those unfamiliar with the case more information can be found here.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

Am I being unreasonable to think that this was absolutely the right call, and a victory for personal and religious freedom? I don't think anybody should be forced to facilitate political slogans which that profoundly disagree with.

Well, it just goes to show that you cannot reason with stupid.

2BoysandaCairn I know exactly who the Christian institute are, I’ve argued with them many, many times for their abhorrent views.

What you seem to fail to understand is that the examples of hate speech you give WOULD have been allowed without this second ruling, so actually it has stopped the expression of bigotry rather than allowing it.

I also find it spectacularly ironic that you’re so anti bigotry but are yet to apologise to the Northern Irish people that you lumped in with Ian Paisley and the DUP! Can you not understand how offensive that would be to many?

Anyway, I’m not going to engage any longer because you’re missing literally the only important point about this ruling and just focusing on points which are irrelevant in law.

It's OK that you don't get the ruling 2BoysandaCairn. Fortunately the Supreme Court exists to know the law and apply it. If people want to be obtuse because the law applies equally to Christians so be it.

This case has exposed the illiberal attitudes of some who call themselves as progressive liberals.

This case has exposed the illiberal attitudes of some who call themselves as progressive liberals

Yes. It's "think the way I think and if you don't you're a bigot" without having the intelligence to realise how hypocritical that is.

YAbu.

That's telling 'em.

Okay.
I get the ruling, I have on both threads said I have major doubts about it. Until Wednesday I was backed by the high court of NI and the appeal court of NI. So its not like I am totally left field.
I dont hate NI people or anyone, I have paid to listen to David Hume, been to a lecture by John Alderdice and been in conversation, by letter with David Tremble. All are totally honourable men.
I oppose the DUP and its stance on abortion and same sex marriage and lbgt rights. I as a straight white man spent my youth campaigning to overturn Section 48, joined the SDP been in the TGWU, GMB and RMT unions, have raised money for local womens centre. Campaigned for pardons for WW1 cowardice victims, immigrants rights. Joined green, labour, tory supporters to campaign to stay in EU, lost 67 to 33. Now support the Norway way of brexit.

I hate the Christian Institue, especially after their members targeted the support organ transplant week. When a 18 yr mum and I 22 year brother who both had donated organs, her 6 month old daughter and my brother and called us on the radio the devil's own helpers and we would rot in hell. The girl was pyhsically sick.
So back to the op original question, yes she is AIBU because I worry common sense hasnt won and this is the start of a campaign to remove lgbt rights, many on here oppose trans rights.
So I wont campaign against ruling.
But I have decided after 31 years of voting in every election and campaigning for things which dont make my life better, I obviously have no place in 2018 Britain, my views are wrong and clearly intolerant. So I will no longer vote, walk away from campaigning and leave this right wing neo liberal country to imploded.
I only feel sure for my kids, one who already campaigns for LGBT and left of centre future.
Actually free speech is confided to the majority, look on this thread and the other, any poster who has worries or doubts is thick, stupid or just misunderstood.
But actually we where once supported by 2 courts.
I believe Mr Gareth Lee may be looking to go to the human rights court, so it may rule we are correct again. Or 5 different law lords may have backed the original decision. Who knows.
You have just proved how hard it is to be on an minority, I feel so sorry for all minorities who live like 24/7/365.
I hope the future you all want is bright, i think we are heading for a repeat of the 1920 and 30's with the rise of hard right and left party leaders. I know that leads to death, history says in 100000's usually.
Want happen to live and let live.

Want happen to live and let live.
It is alive and well thanks to this ruling that says you can live and let live and not force people to say stuff they don't believe in.

YANBU

It was the correct and common sense conclusion. It beggars belief it took so long to get there.

dionethediabolist
So can you help out.
Can you promise me this has nothing to do with LGBT rights or my rights as a union member and as a person who knows has been on a government watch list for support of catholic rights in NI and for repealing section 48, I have a letter promising me I have been removed, I didnt know I was on it.
So this isnt the start of post Brexit riping up of employment rights, discrimination rights?

Because that is my fear, the Tory party and DUP both oppose the Human Rights Bill and of course want us to leave the EHRC.
I truly fear the CI will use this to campaign against organ donation and minority rights.
All religions seem to discrimate against non.believers.
In the current political climate can you honestly say we wont lose rights, that grsndfather, father and their generations fought so hard for. The majority on here quite happy to piss them away.
If you can say this honestly only free speech, nothing about rights, I may sleep easy for the 1st in days.
So can you.

The ruling made clear that it was not about LGBT rights 2BoysandaCairn, I'm struggling to see what you are failing to understand.

I understand why you are feeling emotional but I think this is clouding your ability to read the judgement objectively.

No-one on here is happy to piss away rights, but equally no-one on here is happy to force compliance and make thought a crime - that is totalitarian.

Can you promise me this has nothing to do with LGBT rights or my rights as a union member and as a person who knows has been on a government watch list for support of catholic rights in NI and for repealing section 48, I have a letter promising me I have been removed, I didnt know I was on it.
Alright then, I promise.

On a side note 2BoysandaCairn, can you PM me details of that letter you got? I didn't get mine and so am still stopped and subjected to full security checks every time I go through a UK airport. Maybe a nice letter from the government would stop this because it's a right pain in the arse.

I can’t believe this went on for so long.

I’m glad they won the case but it must of been soul destroying having to go through all that.

They probably would of been that customer who would of found something to complain about even if cake was made. As always one arse ache moaner in life.

It’s a prime example of current situation with transactivist they think world resolves around them. It’s like me going to halal butchers demanding non halal meet.

No I am not a Christian either.

Can I just ask would they have their legal fees reimburse?

Sorry my SPAG rubbish but I know meet was meant to be meat

It's difficult to understand the importance of the ruling because the majority of people are supportive of gay marriage and disagree with the bakers' opinion on it. It's easier to see the crucial point if you use an analogy.

Say a Tory activist goes into a print shop where the owners are left wing, and asks for a run of posters that say "Corbyn sucks, vote Tory".

The law has clarified that the print shop owners are within their rights to refuse to make those posters.

If the Tory activist went in to the shop and asked for birthday invitations, the shop would be on dodgy ground saying "I won't serve Tories" (the analogy breaks down a bit here as political affiliation isn't a protected class, but you get my drift).

However the shop can say "I won't print posters that are against my philosophy".

And so the bakers cannot refuse to serve gay customers (they did not), but they can refuse to write a pro-gay slogan.

I think it's a really important ruling and a vital distinction to make.

Okay,
I was wrong, I am truly not intolerant, I passionately believe in organ transplant, my family was the 1st in the country to voluntarily offer my brother's organs without been asked. I for 10 years did radio interviews and went to meetings to actively support increasing numbers of donors. But I strongly disapprove of this new opt in scheme, people should have the right to oppose it.
I have never voted Conservative, but am married into a tory voting family, I have on numerous occasions taken Conservative supports to vote, it's their right.
I would print Tory leaflets, and BNP ones, communist ones and LGBT ones too, all are legal parties and as a business you are there to supply a service.

I now need to go and find my late grand mother's soap and water solution and wash my mouth out, and shower in bleach, I am now a supporter of Christian Institute views on the world. Sorry I feel violently ill and truly think I may have to kill myself, is to me is like standing next to Hitler and Stalin.

I know my greatest political hero, my grandfather, as a man who was in the unions of 1930's Britain and thought for women's votes, holiday pay and equal pay, rights to be in an union, for gay's to be legal all through the 1950's and lost a cousin to fighting Franco in the Spanish Civil war, will now be turning in his grave, and probably disowning me. If knew I agreed to a stance backed by an homophobic right wing Evangelic chartity, I would never have been allowed in his house again.
Sorry Granddad please forgive me.

Sorry
I need to shout this
I WILL NEVER, EVER AGREE WITH THE VIEWS OF THE CHRISTIAN INSTITUE, EVER. You do not have my backing and I DON'T EVER SUPPORT THE ASHER FAMILY, I hope they lose all customers.
I truly find it impossible to get my head round that a charity, who only purpose is to persecute gay people and their human rights, is now held up as giving me free speech rights.
Sorry It's like saying Nazi experiments on Jews and Twins helped our understand of Genetics and their rockets lead to the man on the moon. PERVERSE.
I will retreat now, and may never return. I have a broken heart

And thanks to this ruling the law is on your side if you refuse to make a cake or sign in support of the Christian Institute.

Now about that letter, do you need me to PM you first 2BoysandaCairn because I'd really like to get mine and the more I think about it, the more pissed off I'm getting.

I will retreat now, and may never return.

That biscuit, incidentally, has no slogan of any kind on it.

Dione
I have PM you.
Honest I am nice and normal, thanks for politely and patiently explaining the ruling to me.
I have real issues with the CI, and the stance of the DUP, and their backing scares me, even now, but I accept gracefully I was wrong.
Enjoy your weekend

SonEtLumiere
Know I have been involved directly in opposition to CI believers, they believe me, are far from the tolerant human beings you have fallen for. I have sat on a platform with a lady from JW, and discussed organ transplant donation. I shocked her, by saying she and all JW had the right not to donate, and any one else in that room also, I was there to educate and politely explain, the process and actions of a donor family, yes I would gladly sign up anyone but if not, okay.
The CI don't believe in free speech, they believe in only gods way
or why else have 6 anti LGBT court actions to their name.
DisrepectfulAdultFemale
Are you two, I have admitted I was wrong and said sorry. You are horrible and I will never reply to you again, my 7 old nephew shows more respect.