Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that "gay cake row" verdict is a victory for common sense?

128 replies

MaxDArnold · 11/10/2018 10:44

The UK Supreme Court has ruled that a Belfast bakery was not obliged to bake a cake emblazoned with the slogan "support gay marriage" and over turned a £500 damages award over turned on it.

For those unfamiliar with the case more information can be found here.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

Am I being unreasonable to think that this was absolutely the right call, and a victory for personal and religious freedom? I don't think anybody should be forced to facilitate political slogans which that profoundly disagree with.

OP posts:
Elementtree · 11/10/2018 16:47

No, you are wrong. If this gay couple came in to a cake shop and asked for a regular white icing cake and the sellers refused, that is discrimination.

But, this is about freedom of speech. You are legally allowed to be unkind and mean so long as you do not discriminate or incite hatred.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 11/10/2018 16:48

It was about a guy who was refused the cake he wanted because he went to a homophobic baker.

If you are referring to the original post, you have your facts wrong.

Bi11yButton · 11/10/2018 16:48

How is it ok to be against gay marriage? ConfusedThat’s like saying it’s ok to be homophobic. It isn’t.

Bi11yButton · 11/10/2018 16:49

But refusing to support gay marriage is homophobic. Homophobia has no place in any transaction.

FreckledLeopard · 11/10/2018 16:49

I'm bisexual. I've had long-term relationships with women. I think the decision by the Supreme Court is absolutely the right one. Further, I think people are allowed to disagree with same-sex marriage if they want to.

The individual in question was not dealt with in a homophobic manner. It would have made no different if a heterosexual individual asked for a cake to be made, portraying the same message.

flirtygirl · 11/10/2018 16:50

Yep the verdict was good and showed common sense finally prevailed.

MakeAHouseAHome · 11/10/2018 16:50

People can disagree with whatever they want to disagree with! Whatever your opinion on it, if someone holds their own view that gay marriage is wrong then that is entirely their perrogative.

Elementtree · 11/10/2018 16:50

You are legally allowed to be homophobic so long as you do not discriminate or incite hatred. You can't be forced to think a certain way, you cannot be forced to say things you do not believe. This is the law.

Bi11yButton · 11/10/2018 16:52

If you’re legally allowed to be homophobic or racist surely the law needs to change.

PennyMordauntsLadyBrain · 11/10/2018 16:54

The man in question was a frequent customer to the bakery, so had obtained goods before.

It is well known in Belfast that the business has a very strong Evangelical Christian ethos (not unusual in NI).

The customer requested the cake, his order was taken and a few days later he was contacted by Ashers who apologised, but confirmed they didn’t feel they could produce the cake as requested and offered a blank cake and icing for the customer to complete the design himself.

As a result the court found that the bakery didn’t discriminate on the grounds of the customer’s sexuality- they would have refused to make the same cake for a heterosexual individual.

Elementtree · 11/10/2018 16:54

The law needs to change so that people are forced to say things that they do not believe?

Does that sound like democracy to you?

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 11/10/2018 16:55

If you’re legally allowed to be homophobic or racist surely the law needs to change.

Are you really suggesting a law that makes it illegal to think a certain way?

Poudrenez · 11/10/2018 16:57

I don't think it's a 'Victory for Common Sense' when a couple are against people enjoying a right that they themselves enjoy (marriage), inflict this view on the paying public. I absolutely think this would apply to a gay couple refusing to support heterosexual marriage. Not that anyone is questioning the rights of straight people to get married.....

Bi11yButton · 11/10/2018 17:01

Regards racism and homophobia yes. There is no place for it in any decent society. Sorry I just can’t get my head round anybody thinking anybody has the right to think like this. I’ll leave you to it though as I’m clearly in the minority. It’s not exactly a good advert though for the bakery or NI though is it. I’m really shocked views like that are so prevalent there. Don’t think I’ll be visiting.Sad

PennyMordauntsLadyBrain · 11/10/2018 17:01

don't think it's a 'Victory for Common Sense' when a couple are against people enjoying a right that they themselves enjoy (marriage), inflict this view on the paying public

The McArthurs aren’t inflicting anything on anyone- they declined to print a message they found objectionable while still willing to provide a service to the customer. Just not the one he wanted. That, as has been decided by the court, isn’t discrimination.

I think a big problem with this is that most people are pro-gay marriage (me included) and are coming at it from that angle, rather than actually reading the judgement and seeing that this is a free speech issue rather than an equalities one.

Elementtree · 11/10/2018 17:07

Sorry I just can’t get my head round anybody thinking anybody has the right to think like this.

Come on. People can THINK whatever the hell they want, regardless of how morally objectionable you consider the view because that is a foundation of democracy.

Ohyesiam · 11/10/2018 17:08

But nobody should disagree with that slogan,nobody at all. If you disagree with it you are homophobic. If they refused to make a cake saying similar but regards race they'd be racist. Both are vile and should be punished.

It’s not that simplistic. As a baker I couldn’t create a klu klux klan cake, or a national front cake, I need to be able to refuse to things that I have a stance on.
I certainly don’t agree with their stance, but they have a right to it.

AdalindShade · 11/10/2018 17:15

Come on. People can THINK whatever the hell they want, regardless of how morally objectionable you consider the view because that is a foundation of democracy.

^ This. With fucking bells on. Legislating against people's thoughts is an absolutely horrific idea. I'm astounded that anyone would even consider that people shouldn't have freedom of thought!

MakeAHouseAHome · 11/10/2018 17:17

Are you seriously seriously saying you want to have a law created that governs what people can or cannot THINK!? People are entitled to think whatever the hell they want.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 11/10/2018 17:20

What they ^^ said.

Lougle · 11/10/2018 17:22

"Bi11yButton

But nobody should disagree with that slogan,nobody at all. If you disagree with it you are homophobic. If they refused to make a cake saying similar but regards race they'd be racist. Both are vile and should be punished."

You can't legally force someone to hold a view. They weren't refusing to serve someone who was gay. They were refusing to ice a cake with the slogan "Support Gay Marriage". They may have done that because they didn't believe that gay marriage was right, or they may have done so because they didn't want their bakery to be seen to enter into the gay marriage debate on either side of the debate, and felt that to ice a cake with a political message would do so, but either way, as long as their conduct did not discriminate against a customer with a protected characteristic, which it didn't, they had the right to refuse that business and, wisely, offered an alternative service.

PennyMordauntsLadyBrain · 11/10/2018 17:30

To think that Free Speech laws should be repealed or changed in a way which prevents people from holding these opinions or thinking these thoughts mean that you also need to accept that it would only take a change in government for you to also have no choice in having to appear to agree with stances you find objectionable.

RedDogsBeg · 11/10/2018 17:48

Bi11yButton you seriously want to force by application of law what people are allowed to think? That's very, very, dangerous and if you had a modicum of knowledge or awareness of history you would know just how ludicrous what you are proposing is.

Bi11yButton · 11/10/2018 18:05

It was more re carrying out an action that shows homophobic/ racist views. I guess that was a stupid thought on my part.I'm tired and just a little shocked saddened shitty actions like that are part of a modern society.

Either way I doubt customers will be queuing round the block to shop there now. Unpleasant views and the purveyors of less than impressive cakes going by the one pictured.

MakeAHouseAHome · 11/10/2018 18:15

Personally if I lived locally I WOULD be queuing to buy there purely because they stood up for what THEY believed in, and their own freedom of speech.

They didn't refuse to serve the individual they just refused to publish the slogan.

If you started insisting they HAD to write/print anything and everything that was asked of them then where would it end!?

Swipe left for the next trending thread