What constitutes a “large family”?

[LucieMorningstar]

Wondering what people believe constitutes a “large family”? More than 3 kids for example?

Just interested really as it’s something I hear a lot, but I’m not talking Radford family size!!

*educate

I’d never finance my kids through university so it doesn’t concern me.

You are expected to contribute to their living costs (over and above their loan) if you have a household income above ~£25K. You are expected to contribute ~£5K if your household income is over £60K. This is per child and they don't take into account your other expenses.

I think 3 is large. Most people I know who have 3 do not have a standard sized car or house. 3 is common, but it's a big family. I felt different when I went from 2 to 3, I'd stepped into new territory. I don't see any difference between my life with 4 and my friends who have 3.

I assume your parents were helping you in some way DieAntword if you lived at home whilst at university.

I am not suggesting parents have to pay the fees, but my understanding is that not all living costs are covered by loans. All very well saying have a gap year and save, but I then assume they would be living at home and not paying full market rent then, so parents are in effect financing them.

@DieAntword
If you’ve got a ton of money it might not hurt but it’s not necessary, ceirtainly not a reason to deny other kids you want a chance at a life over.
These "other kids" aren't being denied a chance at life as they don't exist . Unless you are religious then that's a very odd way to think about parents making responsible decisions in order to make sure that they can afford to pay for their children to have opportunities such as to go to university without having to work X number of years beforehand to fund it.

The thing about large families is that your opinion on them will be based on your own values and what you think it is important. So for example I would have hated to have shared a bedroom when I was younger and honestly think that it would have significantly impacted on my quality of life. I therefore would never purposefully have more children than I had bedrooms. Other people don't have such qualms, see no issue in children sharing rooms and in fact think it is preferable.

I would personally classify any family with 4 or more children as "large".

You are expected to contribute to their living costs (over and above their loan) if you have a household income above ~£25K. You are expected to contribute ~£5K if your household income is over £60K. This is per child and they don't take into account your other expenses.

Tuition fee loan is not means tested.
Even earning 60k your kid will get over 4K maintenance loan. Ceirtainly plenty if they decide to live at home and attend a local university.

If they can’t manage without help at 18 or want to go further afield they can always wait till they're 25 and apply as a mature student and get funding based on their own income instead. They’ll probably approach it with a better perspective after working for a few years anyway.

I'm one of two so I sometimes feel that having three feels like a large family - mostly because it's trickier for kids to get 1-1 time.

Still, we can fit into a normal car, can cope with two rooms on holiday etc so for me 4+ constitutes large.

I also think gender affects things. Ours are all boys so there's no expiry on squeezing them all into a bedroom when we go away. If one was female, come the teenage years we'd need an extra bedroom.

I would want more for DD than for her to live at home and go to uni locally. I benefitted hugely from going away to uni.

Them not paying rent doesn’t cost you any extra unless you planned to sell the house as soon as they went to uni.

And a kid I don’t have is a kid that doesn’t get to exist. Of course it’s not a crime to not bring them into the world, but someone having a marginally more comfortable life is not worth saying “oh we’d love more children but a slightly easier life for our existing children is more important”.

Of course dc still need financial help at 18+, does it ever cross the mind of some people that lots of us don’t have a ‘local’ university or even if they do it probably won’t do the course that is required.
My eldest two are at university and 4K doesn’t touch the sides, not even half of one of their accommodation costs.

DieAntworld you are completely missing the point. It has already been pointed out that local universities don't always have the course. The student may not even get in. Most maintenance loans don't even cover the cost of living accommodation. Students still have to eat, and in some cases, buy books.

I am not prepared to scupper DD's future by deliberately setting financial obstacles in the way of her education

I'd say 4+

I have 3, and it's unusual in our area. I'm in a chat with a group of mums from an activity (I think there are 8 of us) and I'm the only one with 3.
Funnily enough, they all have either 2 girls or 2 boys, there's no mix.

5+

Four plus

3 is the unusual side of average, 4 or more is large around here.

@DieAntword
And a kid I don’t have is a kid that doesn’t get to exist. Of course it’s not a crime to not bring them into the world, but someone having a marginally more comfortable life is not worth saying “oh we’d love more children but a slightly easier life for our existing children is more important”
This just sounds like a slippery slope argument that ends up with the existing children's standard of life diminishing as parents continue adding to the family with more and more offspring.

The compromises that need to be made in order for a family to add another member often aren't "marginal" and can be very real. The parent's attention, energy and money is divided and for some children this can be life changing when there aren't enough of these things to go round to facilitate a child to reach their full potential.

More than 2 is large.
More than 4 is ridiculous ly selfish

300 per month for a room in shared accommodation = 3600 a year. So ok if you’re income is over 60k you might have to put something toward food and books (vast majority of people’s isn’t) but you were already paying for food and books for your kids presumably so it’s not some added expense on top of what your income covered anyway.

I will probably get flamed for this, but I think it is selfish to have so many children if you can’t afford to have them

In France you can apply for a "famille nombreuse" card from 3 children. Gives you discounts on public transport and public swimming pool entrance. Plus various other private run companies offer discounts if you have the card.

For trains, you get a higher and higher discount the more children you have (6 or more children is a 75% discount per person!).

I personnally find 4+ a big family. I know loads of 3 children families and a fair few 4 children.

DH and I are really tempted by a 3rd but are struggling with 2 (they don't sleep and the youngest is really having a hard time at school).

I was one of four (plus one or two foster kids sometimes) and it was a fucking nightmare. I used to think it was because our family was large, but really it’s because our family is dysfunctional. Mum and dad each had a favourite, and us two “spares” just had to lump it.

I instinctively think 5 plus, with 4 being boarderline.

I was one of 4 and it didn't feel like a lot because the age range was fairly big and we often weren't all home at once. The sister I had trouble with was the closest in age, and I think more siblings diluted her intensity rather than being more "competition" though I was always fairly independent and happy to find my space in a crowd, and have always found more people about allows me more time to myself. Fewer people about can be more stifling and intense than more.

I only have 3 and don't think it's a big family, but it is larger than average statistically and does bring a leap up to a bigger car when all are in bulky car seats (fine again once 2 are adult size weirdly, 5 ft 4 child takes up less space than a baby or toddler seat...). Holidays need more planning if you don't want unsatisfactory crappy budge up and make do unsuitable sibling bedsharing and many "family rooms" are 2+2 max and it's a shitty holiday when parents have to sleep separately due to their family exceeding the numbers for a family room, so you have to shop around for twice as long as a family of 4 and be far more creative to get suitable accommodation. On a recent holiday in Ireland several attractions had family tickets for 2 adults and max 2 children and a separate ticket had to be bought for a 3rd, which was a surprise - clearly bigger families are no longer the norm in Ireland. We live abroad and family entrance prices are always for max 2 adults and all children living at the same address, without limiting the number.

So it seems some products and services aren't designed for families of more than 4, therefore there is an argument for 3 kids being a big family now. It's certainly a family size which isn't catered for as widely as 2 kids.

It's all relative. If I had one child, that would be way too large a family

Most first year students go into halls. None of which are as cheap as £3600 pa. Most 18 year olds aren't as self assured and independent as you clearly were at that age Die. We aren't all the same

Cheapest halls at my old uni for this year are 3300 per year.