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Original poster

Who was in the wrong? (Driving related)

264 replies

PookieDo · 04/10/2018 09:28

Car A and B are driving down a dual carriageway that has a section of 50mph speed limit and the rest is 70

Car A comes out of the 50 section in the left lane and picks up speed, coming up behind car C still going 50. The road is pretty empty bar car B which is in the right hand lane some distance behind - at least 20 + car lengths who has also just come out of the 50 zone and picking up speed

Car A sees car B in mirror but due to speed of car C either has to brake or overtake Car A pulls out and overtakes car C quickly going back into left lane but does not realise car B is going 90mph.

Car B is very angry and had to slam on brakes although car A does not stay in right hand lane for any longer than needed to overtake 1 car

Car B driver flashes lights beeps horn multiple times even once has passed car A, then makes offensive gestures pulling level with car A then at the next roundabout opens window and shouts at car A driver for being a stupid ***

Clearly car B did not react very well but was this proportionate to what car A did, a normal driving manoeuvre making the assumption that car B was going around 70mph and therefore had plenty of time?

OP posts:
Kardashianlove · 04/10/2018 12:10

B is most at fault as they were driving at 90 a speed that significantly reduces reaction time. They were speeding and should not have felt entitled to continue driving at that speed.
A was entitled to pull out

A was only entitled to pull out if safe to do so which in this case it wasn’t.

In court, B would not be deemed most at fault. B has right of way and it is up to A to ensure it is safe to change lanes.

If B speed could be proven (which is most cases it can’t) then B may have contributory negligence but A would likely be deemed fully at fault.

I really hope you don’t drive Grin

NerrSnerr · 04/10/2018 12:13

A was entitled to pull out as the speed limit had changed and the driver ahead had not changed speed from 50 but sounds like they jumped out a bit quickly.

You should only pull out if the road is clear. If someone had to slam on the brakes then the road behind wasn't clear. Car B shouldn't have been going 90 (even though we don't know for sure he was) but that doesn't mean you can pull out on them.

mummyhaschangedhername · 04/10/2018 12:18

Point is, unless OP is B, which I don't think is the case, there is no way of knowing that B was doing 90. That's just a guess and a wild guess if A wasn't able to tell that B was doing 70 seconds before.

So all we know is A accelerated up to a car on front, got so close to the point they had to take aversive action to pull out or break, then didn't recognise that B was approaching fast and pulled up meaning that B had to take aversive action.

There is no way of knowing what B was doing. If A actually was doing exactly 70 and had to break than B is going to have been doing more, but if A slowed when she caught up with C than B could have been doing 70 and just closed to gap, depending on the distance A was pulling into.

TheMobileSiteMadeMeSignup · 04/10/2018 12:27

I would say that Car B anticipated that Car C was going slower than the speed limit so pulled out in plenty of time to speed up and overtake. Possibly a car with decent acceleration so would know they would catch up on C depending on make of C's car.

Car A did not anticipate this. Seeing B on the right-hand lane they should either have sped up to match B's speed if there was sufficient room to do so before moving out, but I doubt there was in this scenario, or taken their foot off the accelerator to give themselves more time to judge the situation and allow B to pass.

As there are no other cars mentioned I am going to presume that waiting a few extra seconds for B to pass would have resulted in a clear space for A to manoeuvre and overtake C.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 04/10/2018 12:30

Car A was at fault for pulling out when unsafe to do so. B was going too fast, C too slow but A changed lanes into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 12:39

This thread is absolutely unanimous apart from one random poster suddenly saying it was the speeding car in the wrong...Hmmm.

What if car B had been a high speed trained police pursuit officer?
A still ok to randomly pull out in front of them?

Meltedicicle · 04/10/2018 12:48

A is at fault.

To those saying B has anger problems etc. I have to disagree to some extent. Regardless of the speed B was doing, you should never pull out in front of someone like that. I have experienced this and it is so scary and could easily result in a serious accident particularly at speed (whether 70 or 90mph). If B hadn't reacted to it then it sounds quite possible that A would merrily continue driving dangerously and not think they have a problem-of course B is going to be angry/shook up. Car A seems absolutely clueless to be honest. Although B does sound like they were a little excessive in their reaction.

Snowbear66, B wasn't expecting anyone to get out of their way though were they, they were on a clear road until A pulled in front of them?

Nothing wrong with C's driving at all.

slashlover · 04/10/2018 12:55

Clearly car B did not react very well but was this proportionate to what car A did, a normal driving manoeuvre making the assumption that car B was going around 70mph and therefore had plenty of time?

I've not long passed my test and one of the things my instructor said over and over again was to NEVER assume what someone else is doing/going to do. Check, check and double check and if you're the tiniest bit unsure then wait.

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 12:55

Meltedicicle there is never justification for aggressive behaviour while driving, quite apart from anything, if they’re concentrating on screaming abuse they’re not concentrating on the road! Which is ironic, given that that’s why they’re so angry!

Meltedicicle · 04/10/2018 13:03

YeTalkShiteHen, I think beeping the horn is absolutely ok and totally justified given the circumstances. I think the shouting abuse at the roundabout was unnecessary and unjustified.

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 13:03

Beeping the horn is one thing, but the pulling up and screaming and swearing is reckless at best.

Meltedicicle · 04/10/2018 13:05

Agreed

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 13:05

A lot of that anger will be actually misplaced relief I imagine.

I had a silly bint pull swerve back some chevrons in front of me as i was going full steam down the DC and she'd left it in error. She got a beep and a lot of swearing because she frightened the living crap out of me with her outrageously dangerous and illegal manoeuvre.

Lougle · 04/10/2018 13:05

You should never make a move that makes another car Stop, Sserve, or Slow down. Car A was at fault in making the manoeuvre, even though Car B was at fault for travelling at 90 mph in the first place, because Car A was the car that moved into the path of Car B.

InfiniteSheldon · 04/10/2018 13:10

I don't think A is coming back

Fink · 04/10/2018 13:15

I don't think A is coming back

No, but she's hopefully got the message.

pacer142 · 04/10/2018 13:21

Car A should have checked her mirror, seen the car, then checked again a second or two later and would then have realised B was travelling a lot faster than A (it would have been a lot closer), and braked and waited for B to pass. I was always told to check mirrors twice, not once, to gauge speed etc before moving over.

Likewise A should have realised that C wasn't accelerating and A was getting closer to C, so should have braked/moved over sooner.

Of course B is a pillock for speeding, but they weren't the ones getting too close to the car in front and changing lanes into their path at the last minute.

ZenNudist · 04/10/2018 13:22

Im with A is at fault B is a dick.

If i were car A id have come out of the 50 zone, increased my speed, seen i was gaining on C, checked if it were safe to pull out, seen B approaching at speed, slowed down and stayed behind C. I wouldnt have chanced pulling out knowing i was going 70 and therefore doing the right speed for the road as i wouldnt want B to have slowed down. I was taught that causing other drivers to break or swerve is bad driving.

Imnotswallowingthat · 04/10/2018 13:25

I bet Car B was a BMW

Oysterbabe · 04/10/2018 13:39

I work in this area of law and car A is at fault. Hopefully these responses have made you think about how you need to judge the speed of other vehicles better in the future.

Youdontknowwhatyouthinkyoudo · 04/10/2018 13:44

How far past car c were you before car b had to brake?

20 car lengths is about 90M and should have given you about 10 seconds before car b reached you if you were at 70 mph and car b was at 90 mph.

I don't think you have correctly judged car b's speed or distance and have pulled out in a dangerous way.

Original poster
PookieDo · 04/10/2018 13:49

I’m ok with criticism - I am car A and accept that I made a huge assumption about the speed of car B and how far away it was. It made me question dual carriageway etiquette and rules

The fact car B felt quite far away behind on a section of clear road (ahead, the road ahead was clear bar C) gave me the confidence that my short move would not have any detrimental effect on B

I didn’t see B first I saw C, then checked and saw B and probably stupidly assumed that B would see car A stuck behind car C and would have done the same thing and move, but car B was already going too fast and was maybe angry that they had to slow, after already going 2 miles through the 50.

I did not over take C based on impatience but that I had gathered speed then and just did so based on not matching their speed and a generally clear road.

I think they were going approx 90mph as i as once they had finished honking and all the OTT drama they roared off at a similar speed that they had come up behind me. I honestly did not realise their speed until they came up behind me in that moment.

Lesson for me to watch mirrors for longer re speeds. It’s not happened to me before like this that I can recall so I don’t think I make a regular habit of bad judgement.

OP posts:
Original poster
PookieDo · 04/10/2018 13:53

I wasn’t too close to C. I probably would not have had to likely break car A to slow down, just decelerate and I should have

I am not sure I understand the concept of driving so fast just out of 50mph zone when clearly there will be multiple cars/lorries That won’t have been able to gain the same acceleration as you. I think I was 65 or so

20 car lengths was a minimum guess - it was more than that

OP posts:
scottishdiem · 04/10/2018 13:55

UK Highway code:
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
where the road narrows
when approaching a school crossing patrol
between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down

More caution needed by OP. Gross overreaction by the other driver though and, if there were a score being kept, the other driver was the more unreasonable by some distance.

roundturnandtwohalfhitches · 04/10/2018 14:06

I think the criticisms of car A are probably right but on a daily basis I see speeding drivers in the fast lane speed up when someone pulls out so they can beep and flash their lights and tailgate. Car B shouldn't have been speeding, could've anticipated Car A pulling out and adjusted their speed accordingly. The road rage stuff is unacceptable - You should've taken their car reg and reported them- not that anything would've been done.