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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Who was in the wrong? (Driving related)

264 replies

PookieDo · 04/10/2018 09:28

Car A and B are driving down a dual carriageway that has a section of 50mph speed limit and the rest is 70

Car A comes out of the 50 section in the left lane and picks up speed, coming up behind car C still going 50. The road is pretty empty bar car B which is in the right hand lane some distance behind - at least 20 + car lengths who has also just come out of the 50 zone and picking up speed

Car A sees car B in mirror but due to speed of car C either has to brake or overtake Car A pulls out and overtakes car C quickly going back into left lane but does not realise car B is going 90mph.

Car B is very angry and had to slam on brakes although car A does not stay in right hand lane for any longer than needed to overtake 1 car

Car B driver flashes lights beeps horn multiple times even once has passed car A, then makes offensive gestures pulling level with car A then at the next roundabout opens window and shouts at car A driver for being a stupid ***

Clearly car B did not react very well but was this proportionate to what car A did, a normal driving manoeuvre making the assumption that car B was going around 70mph and therefore had plenty of time?

OP posts:

RockyCove · 04/10/2018 10:25

OP which one were you?

RB68 · 04/10/2018 10:26

re moving into the outside lane when busy, if there is not enough room to move out but you need to for some reason then you should check mirrors, adjust speed if you can and indicate, actively look to pull out without pulling out on someone - if the other driver is reasonable they will slack off and create a space for you, if not wait for the next driver behind to do the same. Technically your driving should not cause other drivers to take evasive action but there is nothing wrong with assertive action on your part and getting them to adjust and make room.

If you can't get out then you can't and you need to adjust your driving to remain where you are.

I find moving in more of an issue if you are approaching a junction in busy traffic. If traffic flow is heavy undertaking is more of a grey area in terms of if it is legal or not and so you are left liturally needing two pairs of eyes, but again moving so indicators visible, indicating, then being assertive over pulling in or your intention to do so is the way forward - all of this requires planning in advance though whilst driving and being aware of your junctions too.

Gersemi · 04/10/2018 10:26

if you waited for the right lane to be empty on a dual carriage way would you never really be able to pull out at all?

There is definitely a happy - and safe - medium between waiting for the right hand lane to be empty and pulling out in such a way that you cause someone to slam on their brakes.

Bluelady · 04/10/2018 10:27

Car A is at fault, you don't just pull out in front of an approaching car without being 100% sure it's safe. In this case it wasn't.

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 10:27

At what point does your driving become hazardous then?

If a limit is 50 can you drive at 10mph in first gear? if not, why not - it isn't a target, right?
If you are on the motorway, can you crawl along at 20? Again, if not, why not?

Just because you draw the line differently to (say) me, doesn't mean there isn't a line. Limits may not be active targets, but they are guidelines for safe speeds based on optimum driving conditions.

(I feel obliged here to pre-empt the usual cries of "oh so you'd go racing along the M25 in torrential rain at 70mph would you", by repeating the point about driving conditions and that drivers adapt the guidelines to them)

steff13 · 04/10/2018 10:30

Just because you draw the line differently to (say) me, doesn't mean there isn't a line. Limits may not be active targets, but they are guidelines for safe speeds based on optimum driving conditions.

I'm in the US, and in my state you can be ticketed for driving below the speed limit, just as you can for driving above it.

Lunde · 04/10/2018 10:30

Car A is at fault as A obviously did not judge speed correctly - it is never safe to change lanes if it will require a car already in that lane to "slam on brakes". Car A performed a dangerous manouevre.

MinecraftHolmes · 04/10/2018 10:31

Car A should have had been aware enough of the speed of car C so that it shouldn’t have been a surprise that they were going slower - meaning slamming on the brakes/a late overtake were unnecessary - and have been checking mirrors often enough to see that Car B (who is also in the wrong for speeding) was gaining quicker than they thought. Car B was a dick for being abusive.

Slight aside - Car A would fail their driving test in that situation - for not making correct observations and for making another driver take defensive action because of their makeover.

WeeDangerousSpike · 04/10/2018 10:33

Car A has exhibited some very bad perception of speed and other road users twice in one short example.

What Shots said ^^

Hillarious · 04/10/2018 10:37

You judge the speed of a car in the outside lane not by the speed limit, but by checking in your mirrors a number of times as you approach the car ahead. Should have adjusted your own speed in good time to overtake, or waited.

I had a similar thing happen to me the other way when a cyclist on a cargo-bike wanted to turn right. She looked back over her shoulder, saw me positioned and cycling at a speed to overtake her and turned right anyway, causing me to brake. It's a bigger deal having to brake when you're cycling (especially when it's uphill) than braking in a car. I might have been tempted to react, but settled on a hard stare, as this happened just round the corner from home and there could be unhappy come-back!

mummyhaschangedhername · 04/10/2018 10:39

A shouldn't have pulled out. It's usually fairly easy to tell how fast in comparison another car is going, A needed to wait until it was safe to pull out.

C should have picked up speed.

B shouldn't have been speeding and their reaction constitutes road rage.

Although, A is the one with the most blame, they should have waited until it was safe to do so.

When it's busy, you still wait for a safe space, one will come eventually.

I think the biggest factor seems to be that A didn't judge the speed of car B correctly, perhaps that's just inexperience? Not that B should have been speeding, but it's not safe to assume just because car A is doing 70 than car B is doing the same.

Still, no harm done and lessons learnt on all sides hopefully.

mummyhaschangedhername · 04/10/2018 10:42

To whoever asked about minimum speeds, there is one, no idea what it is, but I am aware of people getting tickets for driving excessively slow on the motorway.

Jaxhog · 04/10/2018 10:42

Car A shouldn't have pulled out without looking properly. If you can't tell that another car is coming up fast, then you aren't sufficiently aware of the road conditions. Car B is a dickhead for going so fast and getting so angry. So both at fault.

FrayedHem · 04/10/2018 10:44

- If a limit is 50 can you drive at 10mph in first gear? if not, why not - it isn't a target, right?
- If you are on the motorway, can you crawl along at 20? Again, if not, why not?

I think you can technically be found guilty of careless driving/not driving with due care and attention if you are going too slowly. But in the scenario above, the 50 mile an hour vehicle wasn't causing a tailback - they had one car behind them, who could have waited for the faster car to pass before maneuvering. The OP hasn't stated the driving conditions either.

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 10:45

C at fault for being too slow, A at fault for pulling out and B at fault for driving too fast and being aggressive.

I’m learning at the moment and the thing my instructor keeps saying is that the biggest thing to avoid is making another driver brake hard or change direction. Even if they’re driving like a dick.

Olderfatherofthree · 04/10/2018 10:46

Minimum speed limits do exist in the UK but they are pretty rare. They are usually in places where going too slowly can cause increased congestion or high risk of a crash, such as in tunnels.

They’re marked by a blue, circular sign containing the minimum speed limit, while the end of a minimum speed limit is signalled by the same sign with a red line through it.

There is no official minimum speed limit on most motorways, but travelling too slowly can be considered dangerous and you might attract the attention of the police.

In this case, you’d usually be let off after a verbal warning, but you could be prosecuted for careless driving.

Fairenuff · 04/10/2018 10:47

Car A should have slowed as it approached Car C in front instead of leaving it so late that they would need to either brake sharply or pull out in front of Car B.

So Car A at fault.

Bekabeech · 04/10/2018 10:48

Car C was fine in my opinion.

Car A should have spotted earlier that it was getting too close to car C and adjusted its speed accordingly, so it was further behind and had room to make the decision.
Car B was an idiot.

Olderfatherofthree · 04/10/2018 10:50

YeTalkShiteHen

I’m learning at the moment and the thing my instructor keeps saying is that the biggest thing to avoid is making another driver brake hard or change direction. Even if they’re driving like a dick.

Excellent advice!

YeTalkShiteHen · 04/10/2018 10:51

Olderfatherofthree I’m very conscious of it, and also of not being scared by people tailgating or pushing me out of the way (I drive a very small car with my L plates on).

hammeringinmyhead · 04/10/2018 10:52

The thing is, in a collision, it would be a hell of a lot clearer and easier to prove that you (sorry, A) had pulled out in front of traffic doing at least 20mph faster (if A was at 50 and B had been doing 70) than it would to prove that B was speeding.

Basically A's impatience at being held to 50mph on a dual carriageway is no excuse for darting out into the right lane, especially not in a points-scoring "Well if you were doing 70 it would be fine" way.

SparkleBanana · 04/10/2018 10:55

if you waited for the right lane to be empty on a dual carriage way would you never really be able to pull out at all

You don’t have to wait for it to be empty you just need to wait for a reasonable space. In this situation though you said it was pretty empty bar car B so A should of just waited for them to pass, and sort of contradicting your own words above.

I was told on my driving lessons (many years ago) that you can fail your test for causing other cars to brake, driving to slow (and I know a girl who failed for this) and driving to fast so you’re all in the wrong if that’s true. But A more so because it was their actions that were most dangerous. And as said before unless you are B you are just guessing that 90 was how fast they were moving (and I doubt you are B from the way the post is written).

It surprises me how many people think that an indicator being put on automatically allows them to pull out immediately. (Or worse still just pulling out).

DGRossetti · 04/10/2018 10:58

I'm in the US, and in my state you can be ticketed for driving below the speed limit, just as you can for driving above it.

Not quite the same here (although we do have minimum speed limits in places). But a driver can be prosecuted for driving too slowly if they are obstructing other traffic.

Also driving tests can fail a candidate for "failing to make sufficient progress".

Clandestino · 04/10/2018 10:58

Both B and A were twats but B has some serious anger management issues and should keep their emotions in check.
A should stop doing fucking stupid manoeuvres which could cause a serious accident.
They are both dangerous drivers.

TJsAunt · 04/10/2018 11:00

OP so you're Car A and looking for validation?

Nope sorry- it's Mirror Signal manoeuvre.

You didn't check your mirror closely enough. If you caused car B to break sharply then you nearly caused an accident. No other car should ever have to take evasive action because of another's driving.
An if you are just coming out of a 50 zone, how on earth can you judge he was already up to 90mph???

HTH

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