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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Unschooling - Do you think it can work?

191 replies

abacucat · 03/10/2018 17:29

Unschooling is the idea that children naturally want to learn and that what children need is the opportunity to pursue their interests.

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abacucat · 04/10/2018 11:30

Yeah good point. In fairness I would have missed out on sports. My parents took us hill walking and canoeing, but at school as well as trying different sports, I also learned to sail. My parents don't like sports so I would not have tried out the many sports I tried out in school. I hated some, but at least I learned what I liked and didn't like.

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IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 04/10/2018 11:34

My child doesn’t know what either of those are!
What's your point? That parents whose children do know what a playstation is, are inferior to you?

My dc discovered these things when they were quite young. They turned out fine, with A Levels and good degrees and even hobbies which are not fifa and motd related Wink

abacucat · 04/10/2018 11:36

For severely disabled kids, socialising in mixed age groups with kind kids is fine. I do think though NT kids need to socialise with peers, as that is how many social skills develop. I have seen it. Kids who behave obnoxiously learn that no one wants to play with them and modify their behaviour.

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BertrandRussell · 04/10/2018 11:38

"My child doesn’t know what either of those are!"
If he's over about 7 that would worry me

Busybusybust · 04/10/2018 11:46

I worked in FE for many years and every year we would have a couple of home schooled/unschooled 16 year olds. I always felt so sorry for them, as they were mostly really bright but were unable to follow a traditional academic route as they had no GCSEs/ So they were on practial courses such as plumbing and hairdressiong. such a shame. Cant help thinking that oarents who make this choice for their 5 yearolds have not thought it through.

abacucat · 04/10/2018 11:57

Just to say I have seen some people rubbish the idea of learning time tables. Apart from reading, writing and basic arithmetic, I probably use my time tables more than anything else I learned. I am very good at calculations in my head. I have seen people pull out calculators to work out things that I can work out much quicker in my head. I am glad I learned time tables.

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glintandglide · 04/10/2018 12:04

That unschooling programme earlier in the year showed a teenager who had chosen not to do anything with his freedom. He was illiterate and played drums badly all day

zzzzz · 04/10/2018 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

abacucat · 04/10/2018 12:31

All I can say is I use my time tables practically all the time.
Socialising with equals is essential to learn social skills. Older children and adults are not equals.

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trancepants · 04/10/2018 12:35

Children can't realistically go through life only learning about things which interest them. At some point they have to learn boring but useful information!

Ok see, here is the thing with that. A previous poster said unschooling wouldn't work as her son loves science but wouldn't work on maths, geography, music, etc without school as he'd just spend all his time on science. Well that's just not possible. In real life, there are no such thing as 'subjects' everything is interconnected. There is absolutely no way whatsoever to study science without developing an excellent foundation in maths. Maths is the cornerstone of science. A child with a keen interest in science will have to and will want to, learn maths. Geography is science, which is maths. Music is maths. Coding and programming is maths. Movie making is maths. All the above have a history, a history which is necessary to understand in order to fully comprehend the present and be part of the future. All of that history was influenced by the politics and social mores of the day. You can not fully delve into a 'subject' without gaining knowledge of a huge swathe of other subjects. And that's your gateway into studying does subjects in real depth and taking that learning into others.

If a child is just super interested in astronomy, they can't pursue that interest without a very real understanding of calculus, trigonometry, differential equations, linear algebra, geometry, etc. They need to have a working knowledge of various engineering and computer science fields. They need to have a knowledge of historical astronomy as practiced by the ancient Greeks, Chinese and to a lesser extent the Egyptians. You can't understand that without understanding those cultures and what shaped them. Moving closer into history, you need to understand the advancements made with utilisation of the Hindu numerical system, the adoption of such by the Moorish cultures. The advances they made in the field while the Europeans festered and reverted. The eventual European resurgence in the renaissance following the work of Copernicus. The church resistance, the 'discoveries' (really the confirmation and popular acceptance of previously known facts) and the actual discoveries of Galileo. The massive divide his work created between religion and science and the knock-on effects. You need to know about the growth of astronomy in Europe, the technological advances in telescopes. How discoveries were made, objected to, how some led to false assumptions. How science corrects itself when proven wrong. How little we know. The space race, the politics of the Cold War. Studying the present and future of astronomy means you need to know about fields that include astrobiology, geography, robotics, resource mining, terraforming, ethics - as the presence of life even within our own solar system is looking increasingly likely and what ethical conundrums do we face if we wish to take water resources or colonise Europa, a moon which may have aquatic life of some form. Questions that are explored in some outstanding literature, so to really get into astronomy, you will need to be well read. And on, and on, and on............

Just that one subject is going to potentially round out your education better than most schools ever could. And that's not accounting for that sidebar into Medieval North Africa or Renaissance Europe not sparking off a deep need to explore that subject more deeply, so you can really understand why things played out as they did.

timeisnotaline · 04/10/2018 12:38

because we don’t operate in single age groups outside of IE
That’s an odd comment, society has been separating children into age groups for learning purposes for a long time. Obviously once humans mature it’s all fairly moot but while it’s no big deal if you’re 12 or 13 there are huge developmental shifts as children age which make what they can learn (as well as the cumulative benefit of having been learning for 4 vs 7 years ) change.

I don’t think any child’s natural inclination is play station and match of the day Hmm, that doesn’t mean they aren’t fun adjuncts to everything else. I have no plans to get a PlayStation (or similar) but my son sometimes watches match of the day on the weekend with his dad.

HellenaHandbasket · 04/10/2018 12:39

It's not my bag but I understand the approach and have seen it work.

RomanyRoots · 04/10/2018 12:39

H.ed for us was never going to be autonomous, I spent the summer producing plans for the whole year to follow Ks2 n.c.
However, it didn't go according to plan and mine had her own agenda that didn't include much maths and English, she just wasn't interested.
I suppose because she knew what she wanted to do though nothing else was important.

Now back at school for secondary and it matters not one jot that she isn't into Maths or English as she doesn't need them anyway.
If school becomes unsuitable for whatever reason, we will H.ed again.
Luckily both are possible and we leave the choice up to her.
although, I can't see her wanting to leave.

Must admit though, she did far more PE type stuff when she was h.ed, her school doesn't do PE, or RE.
She also dropped all humanities in Y8, never to pick up another Geography or History book again.
I think if you H.ed and then school, it takes an exceptional school to provide the same.

HEinLondon · 04/10/2018 12:41

But social skills involve learning to get on with equals as well. Equals will not be so "kind". They might not be nasty say as adults, but they will simply avoid that person.

In real life, you don't "just" associate with people the exact same age as you. Most people associate, even in their own social group, with people that can be a few years younger or older than them as well. My dcs socialise with children that are the same age, older, younger, as well as adults. The older children have fairly well developed social skills and are tolerant of the younger children, so clearly this model works for many children. I think it's important for children to be able to socialise with varying ages and see that they have equal value and varying important things to contribute. I also want them to understand that they as individuals can have some say in how they socialise depending on how comfortable they are with each particular situation. I encourage socialisation, but I also allow them to step back from it here and there when they are not comfortable. That's also an important developmental step, IMO.

As an adult, I have friends of many different ages. These people are friends based on shared interests, values, and life experiences. Some are my age, but many are not. I don't actually check if they were in my school year before I consider a friendship. Grin Some people retain friends from their school years, but some people do not.

Children can't realistically go through life only learning about things which interest them. At some point they have to learn boring but useful information!

True, but only to a point. Some information learned in school is not useful, nor is it necessary. Other information that is necessary isn't actually learned in school. My two that home educate are autistic, and school was simply not the appropriate setting for them. We have a semi-structured approach that works well for us. Others that I know do the unschooling, and it seems to work very well for them.

I think it's important to remember that all children are different. Just because you don't necessarily "see" education taking place, that doesn't mean that it isn't. We often get some of the more structured stuff done early in the morning or in the late afternoon, so that we can go out during the day for activities, socialisation, whatever. Some days we have more of a "low key" day and stay home (like today), especially if we have just had (or plan to have) a few busy days in a row. My children need down time to cope. Attending school all day 5 days a week did not allow this. Like I said, different children, different needs.

RomanyRoots · 04/10/2018 12:42

Children can't realistically go through life only learning about things which interest them. At some point they have to learn boring but useful information!

maybe, that's what you want for your children, but I don't see the point in learning boring stuff when you could be working on what interests you and usually by default what you are actually good at.

glintandglide · 04/10/2018 12:45

Well firstly trancepants you can pretty easily have an interest in astronomy by getting a telescope and looking at the stars Hmm

Secondly how can a parent provide the kind of deep knowledge you describe? Seems like most of the time the answer is you tube, or a yearly museum pass. That’s never going to teach the things you describe.

HellenaHandbasket · 04/10/2018 12:47

Deschooling is the :fallow period when you take a lid out of school. Unschooling is the same as autonomous education

Noqont · 04/10/2018 12:51

I always felt so sorry for them, as they were mostly really bright but were unable to follow a traditional academic route as they had no GCSEs/

Home ed children can take the option of doing GCSEs as well you know Confused

RomanyRoots · 04/10/2018 12:51

ha ha, neither is school with cover supervisors and a curriculum that doesn't allow time to study your interests.
Teachers leaving and not being replaced, unqualified and not subject specialist. Yes, schools sound great.
For something like astronomy youtube or a private tutor sounds great.

HellenaHandbasket · 04/10/2018 12:53

Interestingly my daughter was home educated to 8, at which point she has just started school. We pretty much unschooled as she was so young. On joining her peer group in yr 4 (she's a summer baby, the youngest in the class) she is at the same level as them so far. In line with age expectation, as the teacher said. So those early years horse riding and playing on the beach didn't do her too much of a disservice. 😉😂

zzzzz · 04/10/2018 12:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HEinLondon · 04/10/2018 12:54

For severely disabled kids, socialising in mixed age groups with kind kids is fine. I do think though NT kids need to socialise with peers, as that is how many social skills develop.

So much wrong with this that I can't even begin. Reread what you put here and think about that for a few minutes. Hmm

Socialising with equals is essential to learn social skills. Older children and adults are not equals.

You keep saying "socialising with equals." My children are learning that we are all equals and are learning to socialise with everyone. That means that while they are learning to be respectful to adults, they are able to hold a conversation with them and yet understand that adults are not infallible and they can disagree with an adult without self-combusting. They are learning that younger children are not at the same developmental stage as them, so they need to remember that something that is obvious to them is not so obvious to a younger child. They are learning that while other children their age may (or may not) be at the same developmental stage, they may have different interests or opinions that are not the same, and that they need to respect that. Frankly, this whole "speaking to their equals" sounds weird. Everyone they speak to is their "equal."

zzzzz · 04/10/2018 12:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HellenaHandbasket · 04/10/2018 12:58

Agreed too, define 'equals'?

abacucat · 04/10/2018 13:06

For severely disabled kids, socialising in mixed age groups with kind kids is fine. I do think though NT kids need to socialise with peers, as that is how many social skills develop.
I am assuming that the socialisation many severely disabled kids may get in mainstream schools would not be great for developing social skills.

Children are not adults. It is irrelevant that adults socialise with all ages. Children have different needs.

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