Unschooling - Do you think it can work?

[abacucat]

Unschooling is the idea that children naturally want to learn and that what children need is the opportunity to pursue their interests.

Oh yes I wasn't meaning to criticise - I think there's a balance to be struck though - because as you say on the one hand there's a perception that it's totally lazy/uninvolved on the part of the parent because the parent isn't setting work or deciding a curriculum, whereas if you're doing it properly it's really not like that at all - it's just that the child's interests and motivation set the direction instead. But on the other hand in trying to explain the work involved from the parents' side it can end up sounding impossible or like only the most elite, motivated, intelligent parents can do it which might put people off investigating whether it's an option for them, which would be a shame.

I don't really understand the angst about career options TBH - many people retrain as adults, it's not like it's impossible to join a career unless you pick the correct GCSE options in a school at the age of 13.

"I wish they would change the name." They have, in this country at least.

"Homeschooling" is usually known as "home education" here, to reflect the fact that many families don't consider themselves to be doing school-at-home.

Similarly, most British advocates of the method we are discussing in this thread call it not "unschooling" but rather "autonomous education". The latter term is a bit of a mouthful, admittedly!

You may be interested to read Peter Gray's series of three articles summarising his survey of adults who were autonomously educated during their teens. Of course, the respondents were self-selected, and it could be argued that people who had negative feelings about their education might be less willing to respond than those who were happy about it. Still, it's interesting.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/freedom-learn/201406/survey-grown-unschoolers-i-overview-findings

The problem is that young people do need qualifications more than us older adults did. A friend teaches GCSE English to young people who need GCSE English and Maths to get on to the largely vocational courses they want to do. These are practical courses, and in the very recent past no one needed a GCSE English and Maths to access them, but they do now.
The job I did in my early 20s now requires a qualification that I don't have,
Of course you can take these course as an adult, but it does mean more time studying and not earning. That does not matter if you have well off parents who can help you, but makes a big difference to those who do not have.
Not saying this to be negative, but don't assume that because you were okay without certain qualifications, that kids today will be. And I have done qualifications while working full time. It was pretty awful as all I did was work and study long hours, and had to pay a fair whack to do the qualification as well.

" I currently live in an area where about 10% of kids in the normal school environment get old-school-grade C or better for English and Maths GCSEs "
Are you saying that in your area only 10% of children get 4 or above in Maths and English? Are you absolutely sure about that?

"I don't really understand the angst about career options TBH - many people retrain as adults,"
While simultaneously earning enough money to live and study on in the sort of job you get with no qualifications?

“I don't really understand the angst about career options TBH - many people retrain as adults, it's not like it's impossible to join a career unless you pick the correct GCSE options in a school at the age of 13.”

Really? That attitude is so wasteful to the time in your life that you get to study and learn uninterrupted. You don’t pay for it, you don’t juggle it with other commitments. It’s an absolute privilage.

Free schooling is a privilage. It’s only in a country like this it could be so taken for granted people would plot ways and think up lifestyle choices to get out of it

It works for toddlers but at some point you need to ensure children have a full a rounded education - this can be done at home but they do need to learn cooperation with others, taking turns etc, something the home schooled kids I've met failed miserably at - one particular young person was a self centred brat quite honestly and had zero social skills with peers because he spent all his time being hothouses by his parents on his "special interests" his knowledge on the rest of the curriculum was terrible

I don't really understand the angst about career options TBH - many people retrain as adults

it's not like it's impossible to join a career unless you pick the correct GCSE options in a school at the age of 13.

So, waste 18 years, then pick and study your GCSE's.

Sounds like a great plan

It's becoming a lot more difficult to retrain as an adult in the UK now. Things like NHS bursaries going, restrictions on funding for second degrees, these are having an impact.

I also think a lot of people don't realise that there are no longer evening classes and adult education colleges and all the wonderful things that enabled people in the past to top up their educations if necessary. It is so hard to do that now.

I think it probably could work for primary school kids, but it would depend on the child and the parents. It would def be hard.
We did something similar during the school holidays to keep her entertained and to satisfy her never ending 'but why?' questions
She still vividly remembers her penguin week aged 6. A simple where do they live, led to looking at the globe, maps, what they eat, how they keep warm, why they don't fly, glaciers, making a penguin model and a bit on evolution, going to the zoo, watching march of the penguins (we cried) and happy feet, ice breaker boats, global warming etc. We had similar weeks which stemmed from 'What's a substation?' after we drove past one. Another on why boats float - lots of physics and made boats which we raced (mine sunk)
I am lucky in that I am fairly well educated and she wanted to know the answers. BUT my knowledge would have run out by about aged 13, it took a crazy amount of 1 on 1 time and she wouldn't have got the same socialisation skills.
Her foundation would have been missing, she wouldn't have learnt compromise and having to do things that she didn't want to do (which you need for work). She DID learn that learning can be fun.

...so in summary yes it can be done but the parents have to value education and be just as curious as the child, the DC have to really want to learn and it's darned hard work!!!

Zzzzzz firstly, I don’t describe any marvellous free schools in my post

Secondly, HE is not the same as unschooling. One is home school. The other is no school. HUGE difference.

And if your child has needs which means they can’t be formally educated at all, then this discussion clearly isn’t about them

Yeah. So it wasn’t accurate.

Who is saying home educated kids have to wait until they are 18 or older to take their GCSEs? My point was that if adults can retrain it's surely not impossible for a home educated teenager to say OK - I'm interested in X career direction, and find and take the exams relevant to that. You can sit exams as an external candidate. Or there are various courses designed for people who don't have a traditional school education as access to HE.

Rather than taking whatever exams are offered at school and then leaving and finding that they are useless or you totally lack direction - obviously most people do OK with the typical school progression, but some struggle. And I'm well aware it's not easy to gain qualifications as an adult, that's the situation I'm in myself. But people do retrain, so it can't be impossible. My sister is doing this right now too - something must have gone wrong in our education, clearly. (We both went to school BTW).

Yes, it works. It’s hard work for me though!

“And if your child has needs which means they can’t be formally educated at all, then this discussion clearly isn’t about them
Really? shock. We’re part of the human race, and part of any discussion about education.”

Yes but you also may have incredibly varying needs which mean that you’re not choosing to unschoool because it’s such a great idea to let children choose to learn what they want when they want.

In extreme examples, my friends sister is non verbal and profoundly disabled. She’s not going to decide today she wants to learn about substations, but it was a huge accomplishment when she got to 16 and could drink liquids independently. So how can you mix the 2 discussions?

I think we need to define our terms on this thread- I get the feeling people think autonomous education and unschooling are the same thing.

Aren't they?