To think “Family Court” is a joke?

[Bananallama18]

Absolutely appalled at the treatment my husband is experiencing. In 2 years of proceedings, not once has his (extremely bright and articulate) DD been asked her opinion on what she wants. Her mother has prevented her from seeing her dad (or extended family) for 2 years. Ever since we told his ex we were planning to marry. I was never the other woman. Met him over 2 years after they split. It was a casual relationship and he got her pregnant. Accepted the consequences and tried to build a relationship. It didn’t work, they split when the baby was 8m old. He stayed in the area for a further 18m in order to maintain a relationship with his child. When I met him, he was travelling 400+ miles every 4 weeks to collect his child and have her for between 4-14 days (before she went to school) he met me and we slowly built our relationship and gradually introducing me to his dd and him to my (older) dc, all with his exes knowledge. Definitely the turning point was her realisation our relationship was more serious.

Fast forward to now. We have a 9m son of our own and been fighting in court for access to husbands dd. I honestly cannot fathom how it has taken so long and at no point has his ex had to present a single shred of evidence to support her reasons for preventing access. I am at a loss as to why nobody seems to be listening to anyone but the mother. We’ve had 6 different sheriffs preside over the hearings so no one is ever familiar with the case. We’ve been given yet another continuation of one Saturday in every month contact for 6 hours. (We won this last time, with zero contact in between) for another 5 months. I just cannot see that this sudden drop in contact with her father, is possibly in the best interest of the child. We are now £4K in debt and self representing as we have run out of money (ex gets legal aid so can drag it on for as long as she wants)

Please someone tell me how to get somebody to listen?! We have repeatedly asked for CAFCASS intervention but they do not operate in Scotland. SS were due to interview the child but a “mistake” by her solicitor meant that when they arrived, the mother had taken her on holiday and no follow up has been ordered.

The frustration is killing me. It’s been 2 years already and by the time we go back 2 and a half. The stress is unbearable. His DD is distraught at not seeing her daddy. My heart is breaking for them both. Please someone help us. I’ve no idea where to turn.

Can you push for full custody on the grounds that the mother isn’t honouring the current agreement

Sorry OP I'm not familiar with the Scottish system, it's where cafcass would mediate in England. What does your solicitor say? Can they request a rearranged appointment with SS to get his DDs opinion?

Also how old is his DD? That makes a difference in terms of the weight of her voice in court.

Parental alienation is illegal now. Surely that would cover this case?

Perhaps she has been asked if she wants to see him and she has said no? Also how do you know she is distressed about not seeing him if he doesn't actually get to see her?

This is a horrible situation to be in but we only have one side of the story here. There are always three sides to every story; his story, her story and what actually happened.

If your so far away maybe she doesn’t want to go away from her friends for whole weekends. She’s of school age now and going so far away from her normal life just might not be seen as in her best interests for long periods. He moved away rather than stay close for more access.

Why did he not stay living near his kid?

How old is she?

Legal aid is ONLY available when there has been domestic abuse (has to be proven, so will be police involvement) or intervention by social services. If she is entitled to this then I would be running for the hills taking my children with me!! He also moved 400 miles away from his child. ?

The age is vital. In England I was told my older children could choose (I would not have divorced were I at risk of losing them). It sounds a horrible situation fo ryour husband. Could you all move very close to where the child is?Itr is a p ity your husband mvoed at all as that was probably the first reason he has had these problems. Had he lived round the corner he ,might have been seeing her teachers, at sports day, every parents' evening, at the carol service etc (which there is no legal right in most cases to keep him away from ).

The state never does much very well which is why most lawyers will say it is best to agree contact not have hearings and most parents do just agree it. Is there a reason she doesn't want the contact./ If you can get to the real cause there may be a solution - eg if he paid her extra money she might allow contact. If he explained he does not plan to move his daughter to where he lives she might feel reassured.
Does he email the child? My sons could contact their father by email from about age 6 or 7 as they were pretty advanced tech users for their age (although I would never stop any contact of any kind )

It says in op we won 6hr contact one Saturday in every month.

He met ex whilst working abroad. He did not want to return to uk but ex insisted on moving back to her hometown. He moved there after ex left to try to build a relationship with her and be there for his child. He never settled in her hometown and was a massive factor in their breakup. He ended the relationship, leaving their house and all the belongings and ended up living in a hostel in order for him to maintain closeness to his child, he moved back to his parents as he needed a support network. As stated, he travelled back every 4 weeks 200+ miles to collect his child and the same to take her back to his hometown. He also did the return journey. He Skyped his dd on a daily basis. Mother has never helped with journeys and this was fine as he understood it was his decision to move away.

I think he did more than most men would have done for a woman who he had a very casual relationship with and genuinely think he has tried his hardest to maintain a relationship with his daughter.

She is almost 8 years old. One of the brightest children I’ve come across.

Ex refused mediation 3 times. Court seems heavily weighted in her favour somehow. To me it seems textbook parental alienation but somehow nobody wants to know.

Legal aid is available in Scotland. There is absolutely no violence at all. In fact, she has had a conviction for harassment and threatening behaviour against a woman she believed was seeing my husband before I met him.

OP I’m in Scotland. I’ve been through the system and it’s fucking appalling.

You need to request a Bar Report (independent legal person who interviews all parties and presents to the court) and try to arrange an advocacy worker for your DSD who can work with her in school, to get her views, give her someone to talk to and also speak for her in court.

All the best.

He moved 200 miles to his hometown. It is a 400+ mile round trip.

Thank you so much! As we’re across the border it’s extremely difficult to find advice that is right for us.

Legal aid is ONLY available when there has been domestic abuse (has to be proven, so will be police involvement) or intervention by social services. If she is entitled to this then I would be running for the hills taking my children with me!! He also moved 400 miles away from his child. ?

Not in Scotland. Legal aid is different here.

Is there any chance you could move closer to her. I imagine that would help matters a great deal. Moving that far away from his daughter doesn't look great for him.

@harpingon, re legal aid, this is NOT the case in Scotland.

Legal aid is not only available as per English rules. It is a 2 stage test, means and merits of the case. Almost all contact cases meet merits, so if OP partner not on legal aid it will be to do with income/capital and not domestic abuse.

OP you say your are 4k in debt and "have run out of money" so sounds like you would get legal aid. get an appointment with a solicitor and find out.

Lots of things can be done to get child's views, obtain fuller picture. eg- curator appointment for the child, bar report to investigate full circumstances. To be honest social work report not much use if there is not social work involvement, much better to explore the two options I suggest.

Use law society Scotland website, search find a solicitor, legal aid, in your area. Do it sooner rather than later. The courts are under pressure to take cases to final hearings (proof) and I would be wanting a bar report or curator report before I got to that stage.

Moving closer is unfortunately not an option. My 11yo dd sees her father every few days so I couldn’t and wouldn’t want to stop that contact.

Also OP, am I correct you are in England, proceedings and child in Scotland? You can still see local solicitor and apply for legal aid. They will need to meet you (your partner) for first meeting to complete the paperwork but you being England does not bar the application if proceedings are in Scotland.

Do you know why the mother does not want contact? In England or Scotland it is can be pretty hard to enforce contact as the courts rarely jail the resident parent or tell them unless they allow meaningful contact the child goes to the other parent so if instead you can get to the heart of her concerns however unfounded her concerns are that might help.

In England children tend to be about 13 when they get more choice in where they live and in my view are not listened to enough at any age. he also needs to play the longer game - most of our children are in our lives much longer as adults than teenagers - my youngest are teenagers now. Most of your life your relationship with a parent is as two adults. See if you can find her reasons and then try to find a way psychologically to placate them, solve her issues over it. Eg she might want 4 weeks child free in the summer and he could offer to have the daughter then in summer holiday. Or it may be that his parents may well leave the child £200k when they die and if the mother knew that she might facilitate contact or she might hate the new woman for entirely spurious reasons so finding a way for the father to see his daughter without anyone else at all being present might be a good way to work it for say 2 years. Buying the daughter a mobile might mean she can facetime her father before bed every night and be sent pictures of te new baby. May be she could be asked to be god parent at its christening and that kind of thing or bridesmaid at a family wedding - things it would be hard for the mother to refuse partiuclarly if all the costs are paid by the father. By age 8 my twins made every arrangement to see their father without my being involved - not my choice - their father's choice and that worked fine as they were good at telling me what was happening when.

He moved 200 miles away from his child and then complains he only sees her once a month. He shouldn’t of moved so far away when she started school he was never going to have so much contact as before. Even a every other weekend wouldn’t give much time by the time she would need to be back at a reasonable time Sunday to go to bed ready for school. Would pick up on a Friday even be reasonable really by the time he would get there and then drive back you would not really get 1 full Saturday and the rest driving, that’s with out any activities she may be signed upto or friends birthday parties.

What would he like the contact to be, OP?
It all sounds very difficult.
Going 200 miles away every other weekend doesn’t sound much fun for her either.

Sadly her problem entirely seems to be that he has settled down after leaving her. Nothing else changed, his contact after leaving was every 4 weeks for between 4-14 days. Her mother cut contact off 2 years ago after over 3 years of this and it worked well for the most part. We were always aware that when she started school it would not be able to be the same frequency (it would be exhausting for her to travel after school fri and return Sunday night) we asked how she would like the holidays to be split (assuming the same kind of contact but term time holidays rather than 4 weekly) and she said she wanted to wait from August when term started til New Year’s Eve. Husband said that was unfair. They’d never been so long without seeing each other and that additionally he was on rota to work new year. She said it was new year or nothing as she had plans to go out and needed him to “babysit” and for 3 days after to “recover” 🙄 she then threatened to withdraw contact entirely unless it was dictated on her terms so husband asked for mediation. Her response was “no body will ever tell me what to do with my daughter. She belongs to me” all this (and much more crazy behaviour such as accusing me of attempting to kidnap the child, saying she wasn’t present on significant family events, recordings of her screaming threats at me and my children etc) but not once has any of the sherriffs so much as looked at them. It’s frustrating. The child is a stick to beat her father with and it breaks my heart to see her so sad when we take her back home.

She refused to let his dd be part of our wedding day unless I allowed her to
a) pick her dress
B) do her hair on the day in my bridal suite
c) pay for her to stay at the hotel and allow her to attend the wedding
d) give her an entire guest list
e) tell her exactly how much the wedding cost plus breakdown of costs ie my dress etc
f) the morning after we married, husband had to take her and child home!

These demands were actually presented to our solicitor! Honestly, it sounds outrageous but 100% true!

We cancelled our entire wedding 6 weeks before as neither of us felt comfortable agreeing to these demands nor did we feel happy marrying without his daughter present. We ended up having a quick ceremony when I was 35 weeks pregnant.