To think that this is a poor way to behave in a university lecture?

[malificent7]

Sat in front a group of girls in a lecture...first proper one of the module and I wish I'd said something.
They were laughing about the lecturers , were nattering on about everything and seemed to have a comment for everything the lecturer said.
I took 1 photo of a power point slide and they must have had a 3/4 minute discussion ( pisstake) about it. ( apparently it's fine to take photos of the big screen for notes. I had to check as was feeling paranoid in case I had committed a lecture faux pas.
They were behaving like a bunch of year 9 students win a sweet shop not a group of 18 year olds at uni.
In another lecture a paper aeroplane had been made but thankfully no-one had thrown it.
I am a mature student and therefore a boring old fart. Didn't help that I used to teach. But this is a respected science course and these young people will be treating the vulnerable if they qualify.
So am I a boring old fart and next time should I say something? The lecturer had to tell them to shut up several times.

Absolutely outrageous and unacceptable. Students who talked loudly during lectures in the States would be thrown out of class (at least by professors who had any sense). There's no restriction on doing that, unless there's some evidence of problematic bias; professors (there are many in my family) have real control over their classrooms here. Professors are also allowed to ban laptops, unless there's a disability issue, and certainly cell phones. Cell phone usage, even texting, is liable to get one singled out for a scolding in front of the entire class.

If your lecturer doesn't have the gutsor, to be fair, the authorityto tell them to knock it off, I'd feel free to do it for them.

Sorry--by "have real control," I mean that they're largely given free rein in the classroom, not that they're more capable of control.

Sat in front a group of girls in a lecture...first proper one of the module and I wish I'd said something

I'm a lecturer and I feel your pain OP - I had a very noisy group the other day, and it's hard for me to concentrate, so I have no idea how students in the middle of it cope.

Please do ask them to be quiet if they're distracting you. I get sick of asking adults to respect others' desire to listen. My technique is to stop in the middle of a sentence if it gets too noisy, or ask the loudest talkers to share what they're sayong with the whole lecture group.

But I'm teaching adults; I'm not a school teacher keeping discipline.

It drives me effing crazy, as it's so disrespectful to the students in the room who want to listen. I tend to tell the group that I've had complaints from other students about the chatter, so could they keep it down.

And students complain about paying fees. I've taught in universities for almost 30 years. These last couple of years of the current generation are shaping up to be the rudest & most entitled spoilt lot I've ever taught. And I don't say that lightly. Mostly I love teaching bright energetic young adults.

The flip side of all this, is that if you can survive it - you've earned your degree.

I had this at the start of one of my courses. There were a few other mature students in the class. One of them was brave enough to turn round and say very loudly, "I'm paying to listen to Miss X, not you. Please shut up."
It worked.

One of them was brave enough to turn round and say very loudly, "I'm paying to listen to Miss X, not you. Please shut up."

OP if you had the courage to do this in my class, I'd be eternally grateful. You are totally reasonable to want to listen to the lecture with minimal distractions.

Can I ask a question of the university lecturers? Why don't you tell the students to be quiet or to leave your classroom, rather than relying on the other students?

That's not a goady question; it's genuine. Are you not allowed to by the administration? Are you reliant on student feedback for promotion and thus reluctant to? Or is it a cultural barrier?

This is a UK-US divide I don't completely understand, and I'm very curious.

I used to be a lecturer and the one that used to get me was when the students flounced in 10 minutes late holding a coffee from one of the campus coffee shops. Obviously getting in on time was less important than their latte.

I was also a mature student on a science course. Twenty years older than the majority - this was my one and only opportunity to get a good education, and like you OP, I wasn't going to waste it.

I used to sit at the front if at all possible (most of the other students congregated at the back), and would ask people to be quiet (they usually did, though I would get a chorus of "OoooooOOOOoooooh" and raised eyebrows/ sneery smiles - I didn't care. Embarrassed me the first couple of times, but then I thought "Buggerit - why should I worry about their opinion of me".

One of the best lecturers we had told us all in no uncertain terms that he began his lectures on the dot, and if anyone was more than two minutes late they not only missed the start, they would miss the rest, because he would throw them out - and he did. On a couple of occasions latecomers would arrive and he just said "Get out!" They would look at him, and he would continue with the lecture, but when they tried to take a seat he would say again "I told you - get out! You come on time or you don't come at all - get out." By then, everyone was looking at them and they left. Apparently at one time he would have the lecture theatre doors locked so latecomers couldn't even get in, but H&S put an end to that. However, no-one was late more than once - and when a couple of people had been publicly humiliated, others got the idea.

He also would not allow anyone to take handouts for their mates (it was common for one person to drag themselves out of bed and grab a handful of handouts for their umpteen pals who stayed in their pits.) He distributed handouts at the end, and you could only take one. You couldn't natter either, though he did encourage questions and appropriate comments.

He was also shit-hot on things like word counts/ essay deadlines/ referencing/ plagiarism etc - you did it the way he told you or he penalised the hell out of you. There were tons of complaints about him, but he was bloody good at his job, published extensively, and attracted lots of grant money so he just laughed in the face of protests.

I was really grateful to him - not only was it much easier to concentrate in his lectures, but he taught us to research and present our work to a really high standard. It stood us in good stead when it came to our dissertations, and as I also went on to research, publish and lecture, it meant I passed the same high standards on (I hope!).

Stick with ip OP - the first year is a settling in year. The serious students like yourself will soon be apparent and you will find your feet. the lightweights will drop out.

@WhatTheSausageSaid I am relieved to hear this about BBK. I start on Tuesday!

Can I ask a question of the university lecturers? Why don't you tell the students to be quiet or to leave your classroom, rather than relying on the other students?

I do tell them to be quiet. If I asked them to leave the classroom, though, there’s a chance that they would refuse and tell me that they’re paying to be there.

Oh god, I can imagine, I started a BA (hons) back in 1997, and this was not an occurence. There was some whispering from some, but most of the time it was fine and the lecturer was well respected, we looked up to them. same when I did my Msc in 2001. We were on friendly terms with lecturers and it was a mutual respect. If I failed my modules it was my fault not the lecturers, and we were always there on time. I was not a mature student, but one in my early 20s.

Oh god this used to really get on my wick. It was the other way round in our peer group, the same lot of mature students would be rowdy in every lecture 'come on then you set of cunts! Fuck this fuck that' sort of thing, every time. They must've thought they ruled the roost as they were older and they did! I used to cringe.

Well I’ve never been in a situation yet where I’ve felt a student was badly behaved enough to want to ask them to leave but must admit I might be nervous to do so.

I teach on a course where they have to do x amount of hours (ie all their lecture hours) in order to be able to register with the professional body on qualifying. So if someone misses or indeed is asked to leave a lecture they would have to make this time up. I can imagine the complaints against me if a student had to make time up when they’d been in the lecture! Hopefully my PL would back me up and I would certainly argue my corner. That if they’re not listening then they’re not fulfilling their side of things anyway and are spoiling it for. Others and deserve to have to make the time up.

Namechange just invite them to leave. Tell them they're adults, it's their money, they don't have to be there as it isn't school and can make a choice to leave if they'd rather be somewhere else.

I loved my lectures, and found them fascinating, which also helped.

I think I’m lucky that I teach on a course where as well as passing the degree the students need the lecturers to sign a character declaration that they’re of good character or they will not qualify. Maybe it makes them better behaved!

I'm a lecturer. I don't allow any talking in my lecture (except if you raise your hand and ask a question). If anyone doesn't immediately get with the programme, I just stop and wait, it's really embarrassing for them so I only need do it once a term, ditto phone use. I just stare until they put the phone away! That said, lectures are not interactive and if some students are browsing the internet when I'm speaking, that's up to them. I'm doing what I'm paid to do at the front whether they are benefiting or not.

In seminars or tutorials, it's different, as you want to encourage discussion. I have done a laptop ban before now, but we have settled on having them out but to one side and if it inhibits conversation, we go back to the ban (except the very few who need them for their disabilities).

I don't get very much chat at all and find the students pretty engaged. I would expect the lecturer to deal with any chatting and you can always feedback via student reps or go and see the course director if you are still unhappy.

I like lecturing precisely because there are no real discipline issues at all. A few people chatting once or twice is annoying but not comparable with the average day at the comp. I couldn't be a secondary school teacher.

can I ask a question of the university lecturers? Why don't you tell the students to be quiet or to leave your classroom, rather than relying on the other students?

Where I was, we were not permitted to ask students to leave.

The lecture room is supposed to be an adult learning environment and not set out like a classroom as such, so students are treated as adults. The environment is not nice - student surveys, complaints, litigious students.

It wasn't like that in the polytechnic I went to in the 80s.

I'm not one to study in silence but that is completely different to listening to a lecture quietly. Imo, if you can't manage that then maybe university isn't for you.

By the way, I did the stop and silence technique too but it rarely worked.

Did anyone else find that often the chatters were the best performing students?

Nico , that's really interesting. Having direct lecturer feedback as part of their grade must be part of it. Students here pay through the nose for college and very much think of themselves as consumers, but they still don't play the 'you can't tell me what to do' card--and I think it's because each lecturer grades his or her own class (rather than a set of standardized, anonymized exams), so the power differential is different.

It's not that professors abuse thisand they could get in trouble, rightly so, if they didbut that it means students take professors' directions seriously.

Also, in most classes, class participation is part of the grade (anywhere from 10-30%, depending on the syllabus) and something determined entirely by the professor, so above and beyond any exams, students have incentive to participate and to pay attention.

In essence, professors have a lot more freedom here to shape their courses and control their classrooms, and I think it pays off, at least in this regard.

I was at University in the 70s - and I don't think things were much better then.

One lecturer said that there were too many of us taking his course (it was mandatory) and asked if some of us would stay in bed and skip lectures.

At another one, we got to about the third lecture in a series. The students were being a bit rowdy. Someone made a paper aeroplane, threw it and hit the lecturer in the back of the head. Of course, he was furious and refused to give any more lectures to us. We had to study that subject on our own!

In the UK students have far too much power Nancy.

I was also a lecturer and like Harvestmoon I found that when fees came in, and also when university entrances were decided purely on exam results, I was endingg up with a lot of students who felt that as they (or their parents) had paid for the course, then they were entitled to their degree, even if they hadn't done the work to earn it. Many, too, must have achieved good A level results by buying/plagiarising their schoolwork, because that's what they tried to do with their university work - I received essays which were literally cut-and-paste jobs off the internet. Do they really think we can't see what they've done? And many regard an extension (which should be for exceptional circumstances) as part of their essay-writing time.

Some students were incredibly demanding, wanting this, that and t'other done FOR them - and complaining about everything. And lodging official complaints, too - and believe me, when you've done your best (and know you've done a good job) all year, and then get spiteful comments and have to justify why you did/said something three months previously - it gets very tedious and exhausting.

I and others have also been in the position where students who we have had to discipline/ mark down for some reason, have taken the opportunity at the end of year to unload a bile-filled rant on the feedback forms! And the vindictiveness can be very upsetting, especially when you have particularly spent time ensuring that those particular students have reached an acceptable standard. Some just don't want to work. They just want a piece of paper and a well-paid sinecure. However I was in a medical field - there's no way I'm going to pass a student who can't do a good job.

Not all students are like this - some are wonderful and they are a joy to teach - and I'll admit I learn a lot from students like this as well - it's a two-way relationship. But other made me despair.