Friend compared my MC to her abortion...

[Banana8080]

I had an early MC, sad but we’ll try again. Recently told an old friend about it and her response was to offer support, but in context that she’d been through similar. By this she meant an abortion she had.

I supported her fully in her decision, and it was a free choice for her, although one she might now regret I believe.

I think it was insensitive. Indon’t think she has a clue and her offer of support is sincere, but she’s misstepped.

Argh guess I’m venting on her so I don’t to her face.

SoyDora

Ive told 3 people (not including DP and my mum)
2 of those people have told me to get a grip.
1 told me she had been through similar and that she understood.

It was less than 2 weeks ago i terminated the pregnancy. And ive already learnt that i shouldn't say anything because people don't care when they think there's a choice.

However, what I would say is that the support and resources available to those who terminate a pregnancy are far superior than for those who have a miscarriage.

BULLSHIT.

Op, I am very sorry for your loss, but as a victim of a forced Abortion, following being taken advantage of by a grown man during my mid teena, I respectfully disagree with you.

The “Bullshit” comment was not aimed wt you OP Btw.

I find it disgusting that people judge people for having a termination in this day and age.

However, what I would say is that the support and resources available to those who terminate a pregnancy are far superior than for those who have a miscarriage.

They’re really not. I can’t find a single support group in my area for women who have gone through a termination.
Sure Marie Stopes or BPAS will probably try to take good care of their patients, but once the procedure is done that’s it. Even their counselling service is limited and it’s over the phone. Once their sessions have ran out that’s it. Goodbye.
What next? A face to face support group? Nope.
These women feel isolated and it’s no wonder they suffer greatly after having a termination.

It's awful that people are taking this personally and nobody should feel judged for having an abortion. That doesn't make it the same as a miscarriage, particularly a later stage one. The physical and mental worries are different for a miscarriage; at a minimum there's a different set of guilty feelings; in either case there are things the person will want to talk through. Regardless if which it is, if a friend tells you they've had an abortion or a miscarriage, then I suggest they don't want to hear about your experiences. What they do want is some sympathy and space to talk about how they are feeling. Think of it like if someone says they have cancer; don't be butting in about your heart disease, just fucking be there for your friend for a minute without making it about you.

There will always be judgement for people who have an abortion. I'm sorry op , I feel for you but to put your friend down as she only had an abortion is just wrong. You both have your own grief and are allowed to have it. She was trying to help and using a painful memory.

Some people just don't know what to say so say the wrong thing. When my husband died someone told me she knows how I feel as her husband works away during the week. I'm sure she thought about it afterwards and felt like a tit.

Iv had an abortion and a miscarriage, abortion first and mc years later. They are def not the same. I grieved after my mc. The abortion it was a relief, I’m sorry to
Say.

I would never judge anyone for having an abortion. There for the grace of God ... But, having been in the same situation as OP (stillbirth at 34 weeks, in my case), I was very angry with my friend. That was my first and instinctive reaction. You can't help how you feel.

I have had 2 miscarriages and I wouldn't have been hurt or offended by this. It's still a pregnancy loss, possibly even worse as you always have the 'what if' with an abortion whereas with a mc it just wasn't meant to be. It's not a competition.

OP, I’m very sorry to hear about your miscarriage 💐

I had a miscarriage at 12 weeks. It was a planned pregnancy but wasn’t to be. I was sad but I wasn’t that sad. I didn’t see it as a bereavement but more of a failed chance iyswim. I have been more upset at the the death of a pet. I haven’t had a termination but I could quite imagine I might find it more upsetting than I did my miscarriage. I don’t know that though.

Since becoming a member of Mumsnet I’ve realised that plenty of women are absolutely devastated when they have a miscarriage even when it’s early days.

It’s unfair for anyone to assume they know how other people feel about these things. Just because my miscarriage didn’t bother me doesn’t mean I can’t understand why it might be awful for someone else.

I think both the OPs friend and the OP have been insensitive to compare different kinds of grief. I’m my opinion it’s always a mistake to talk about yourself when you are trying to comfort someone who has been bereaved.

My miscarriage i was able to be open about and get empathy and support immediately.

Not so for my abortion. People judge. They decide i dont need support because i chose to end the pregnancy. They have no sympathy for the difficult situation i was in

The grief is very real, but it's a secret grief. One i cant share IRL because of judgement and peoples nasty opinions

TRIGGER WARNING : DISTRESSING CONTENT

This sums up absolutely how I feel. I had a chemical pregnancy at 5/6 weeks and it had very little effect on me.

I had a termination at 13 weeks, whilst I still feel relief, I never, not for a moment, didn't want that baby. I also feel the grief, sadness, loss, anxiety, fear, pain, unjustice of it. I saw my baby at both six weeks and 12 weeks, I still have the scan picture.

I chose a medical termination over a D/C so I "gave birth" as I didn't want to hurt my baby any more than I had to. It was traumatic and I saw my baby, I was on my own in a little side room of a hospital.

The resentment and shame of it still lives with me. But I could never, ever have given that baby a life that it would have deserved. An hugely abusive and damaging relationship whereby my "partner" was absolutely prepared to drug me, rape me, batter me, not allow contraceptives and then enjoyed me becoming pregnant so much so that the first thing he did was laugh and say "you're having an abortion babes! I thought you were getting fat."

I don't tell anyone this, I think three people in the world know. Miscarriages are an acceptable thing to talk about, abortion very, very rarely is.

And whilst I'm sure this person, glibly comparing her experience to yours was probably unnecessary and at best, misguided. Please, please don't assume that it was an ok thing for them to go through. Some of the views expressed here have reiterated to me why I would never share my experience with anyone.

One is basically a late period.

Not when it is the result of failed IVF attempts. Then it is devastating and after the fourth one, the end of all hope of having a much wanted, already much loved child.

OP you have suffered a loss and you are hurting. Don't let anyone trivialise that hurt. Miscarriages are not something that everyone can shrug off, and why should we? I wish you all the luck in the world.

In Japan there is a specific word for the unborn, which applies irrespective of gestation: miscarried and aborted embryos, fetuses, and stillbirths have a unique name: ‘mizuko’, which translates as ‘water child’ or ‘water baby’.

I'm so sorry for your loss op (I've had two mc and lots of failed IVF), and I hope that you are well supported by other friends and family

I agree with a PP that the trauma of a stillbirth is fundamentally different to that of an early miscarriage, but I resent the dismissal of an early loss being little more than a late period

With both my pregnancies, we saw the embryos at 5 days old before being transferred - they weren't just balls of cells to us personally, they represented future hopes and dreams of a life anticipated. Even at 5w, that was still our future baby, the chance of becoming parents - our grief was real. It's not the same as the grief of a stillbirth but it's still a valid bereavement

I'm researching this subject at the moment, for an article to support Baby Loss awareness week in Oct - different couples will ascribe different meanings to a pregnancy. And different meanings to different pregnancies.

Regarding the terminology, whilst the clinical vocabulary used to make no distinction between spontaneous or induced pregnancy loss, with the term 'abortion' being used for both (spontaneous abortion, threatened abortion, missed abortion, incomplete abortion), an article in the Lancet in 1985 kick started a drive to use the term miscarriage to distinguish it from a termination. Thankfully these terms are no longer routinely used in the UK (although some dinosaurs still use antiquated language, and it's still pretty common vocabulary in the US), along with the term 'habitual aborters' for women suffering from recurrent miscarriage

The paperwork for a termination doesn't reflect the reasons for that procedure, so unfortunately the paperwork for a TFMR for foetal anomaly will still be called an abortion, which can cause additional distress for women having to terminate a much wanted pregnancy.

It's really hard and really shit, and to everyone who's experienced losses, at whatever stage

So so sorry about your MC OP, but it is very possible for people to be sad about their abortions or mourn what they lost

More about the mizuko kuyo Buddhist practice that gives people the opportunity to grieve and mourn both miscarriage and abortion alike (should they wish to do so)

www.npr.org/2015/08/15/429761386/adopting-a-buddhist-ritual-to-mourn-miscarriage-abortion

I've been through both an abortion and MC at different times in my life and both were equal in terms of the grieving process..actually if anything the abortion was worse as on top of everything else there was the guilt.

Go easy on her she sounds like she is trying to support and relate to you. It's not a point scoring contest.

whereas with a mc it just wasn't meant to be.

Unfortunately this isn't necessarily the case. Many miscarriages are the result of chromosomal abnormalities whereby it's 'just bad luck' (using the terms lots of people blithely trot out, not intending to actually minimise in any way), and with no underlying issue there's every reason that subsequent pregnancies will be successful

But not all miscarriages are 'just bad luck' or 'not meant to be'. Some are due to underlying issues which can be treated - but women have to go through 3 losses before the NHS will investigate. Only 1 in 100 people will suffer recurrent miscarriage so most people will go on to have a healthy pregnancy and need no further investigation

But if there's an underlying issue (eg clotting disorder, thyroid) then it isn't necessarily the case that a miscarriage 'just wasn't meant to be'.

Twillow What nonsense. Of course people choose abortion.

I think what twillow meant was that no one wants to be in the position to have to make that decision.

Nobody says "oh i know, I'll get pregnant so that i can have an abortion"

Read the rest of the thread and the very real experiences of people on here. It may be a "choice" but that doesn't make it any easier or any less deserving of sympathy, support and grief.

I never talk about my experiences let alone in this context to someone who has had a miscarriage as I agree, it’s very insensitive but I have had an abortion and a miscarriage and I don’t compare them.

For lots of various reasons including a very traumatic conception (underage date rape) I had an abortion because I didn’t realise I was PG for a while and my parents forced me. It was so traumatic in a million ways

When I had a MC that was also traumatic in a different way. The MC was scary because I had no control over it and it was such a shock.

I am sorry for your loss and personally wouldn’t ever dream of comparing, both are physically painful but I understand there are different emotional and mental trauma for loss and abortion

I think people do try to empathise and it probably wasn’t meant in a bad way

I'm so sorry for your loss OP, I've had two early miscarriages in recent years and they have been awful. I hope you are recovering physically and mentally.

I also had an abortion many years ago. While I agree they are not the same, abortions can still be very difficult but you don't feel you have a right to be upset because it was your choice. I can remember sitting by myself sobbing at 4am in the morning. I still think I did the right thing but that doesn't stop me feel sad about it. I've never been able to talk to anyone about that. I imagine she was trying to connect, empathise and express herself.

@Theperfectchangeling

You are referring to when you were on your mid teens. How old are you now? Thankfully things have improved very much so in recent years for those considering abortion and those going on to abort.

I had four miscarriages.

My SIL aborted her baby.

The reason she had her pregnancy terminated was because she didn't want to have the baby.

This was her choice but not, I imagine, the choice her child would have made.

I understand that her situation was difficult but she made a decision that resulted in the death of her baby.

Had she dared to compare her situation to mine I would have been very angry.