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Original poster

To be shocked at the appalling treatment of Rosemary Kennedy?

207 replies

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:09

And even more shocked that the Kennedys never suffered the consequences for what they did to her (well the father to be more precise).

I’ve just found out about her story and can’t stop being horrified. Sister to JFK, she had minor developmental issues, was considered mentally deficient because she had sexual liaisons (the horror!) as a teenager.

Her father, Joe Kennedy, took her without the consent of either her or her mother, for a secret lobotomy with a physician Dr James Watts. It left her unable to walk or speak. It gets worse...

So then they dump her in various institutions and barely visit her for 20 years. Her siblings tried to make up for it in some way (JFK passed a law to help mental illness and her sister introduced the Special Olympics) but her parents just abandoned her and NOTHING happened to the physicians Watts and Freedman who did this to her knowing the risks. Except of course that they went on to have illustrious successful careers.

I also read that 80% of lobotomies were performed on women which shocks me even more. Why?

Will someone else be shocked and horrified with me? I guess I’m just Shock that they could do this to their daughter, cover it up, and face no reprisals.

[post edited by MNHQ to remove offensive language]

OP posts:
WTFIsAGleepglorp · 30/09/2018 09:12

Yup. It's a horrifying story.

Cornettoninja · 30/09/2018 09:16

Mental health, especially the treatment of women, had a horrifying history.

I’m grateful to live in a time the majority agree it’s inhumane.

JuteBag · 30/09/2018 09:18

Of course it’s horrifying. It was also not uncommon.

Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:19

Apparently there’s a film on it coming out with Elizabeth Moss soon. I hope they show how that poor girl suffered.

OP posts:
mumsastudent · 30/09/2018 09:23

Joe Kennedy got sent her for the lobotomy without even telling his wife her mother. It has been suggested/probable/evidence for asd. The reason this is relevant is that the "current" Kennedy had a child with asd & is blaming the triple - he is at the forefront in informing (!) Trump's viewpoint on this. There is evidence about the tendency of inheritance with asd or the likelihood of it arising.

StripySocksAndDocs · 30/09/2018 09:28

Looking back on women and treatment of their 'mental illness' is horrifying (i use quotes because it most often wasn't).

Treatment in the homes and hospital terrible. It's further back in time, but Nelly Bly exposed this treatment by investigative journalism. How easily she got herself committed is frightening. (Even if you don't read Ten Days in a Mad House, Nelly Bly is fascinating.)

Quartz2208 · 30/09/2018 09:29

As horrifying as it is its important to not look at it in the context of modern society and instead how far we have come. It was very common unfortunately

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lwmommy · 30/09/2018 09:35

It is an awful story but unfortunately not uncommon for the time period.

There is an old "lunatic asylum" (that was the official name) that up to the 1940s admitted pregnant unwed mothers on the basis that they were of unsound mind. In some cases in some cases it was assumed the baby would be mentally unsound too so there were children raised from birth in the asylum.

HRTpatch · 30/09/2018 09:36

Joe Kennedy was a horrible man.

ShovingLeopard · 30/09/2018 09:38

I agree, absolutely shocking story. Poor, poor woman. And so many others who were treated badly too. And the really shocking part of it, is that this happened very, very recently in historical terms.

ParanoidGynodroid · 30/09/2018 09:38

I hadn't heard about this before. How horrifying and sad. Actually it's worse than that: it's barbaric and evil.
I have an autistic daughter entering her teens, can hardly bear to think about her being born some decades ago.

Yes, the treatment of women and girls with (suspected) minor mental health problems or some sort of learning difficulty has been far worse than men. A book I read mentioned reasons for sending women to asylums in the UK which included disobedience, pregnancy out of wedlock and taking long walks alone! Horrific.

vdbfamily · 30/09/2018 09:40

I agree with Quartz. My great grandmother had a late onset epilepsy and spent most of her adult life institutionalised. My gran was brought up by friends and relatives. It was very sad but no-one knew how to manage these conditions and they may have been advised that a frontal lobotomy was the best treatment for her behaviour. Who knows, but thank goodness for modern medicine.

MawkishTwaddle · 30/09/2018 09:43

It's a terrible story. Laurie Graham's book, The Kennedys, is a fictionalised account of the story and it broke my heart.

It led me to research the truth and that was even more heartbreaking. Poor, poor woman.

Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:45

And the really shocking part of it, is that this happened very, very recently in historical terms.

Yes! This is what I can’t get over.

OP posts:
PiperPublickOccurrences · 30/09/2018 09:47

I don't think the Kennedys dealt with it in a particularly unusual way. Learning difficulties and mental illness was seen as shameful. People were routinely locked away and left there.

Happened in high-profile families here, read about what happened to Prince John, youngest son of George V.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_John_of_the_United_Kingdom

Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:48

It’s also so shocking that Joe Kennedy, who was responsible for doing this to his daughter, just shoved her off to a care home and not only didn’t visit her but didn’t let her siblings visit either.

It was only when he died 20 years later that her siblings discovered where she was and brought her back into the fold.

At least they had some humanity.

But the brothers (including JFK) were notorious for sleeping around yet I doubt anyone thought it was a sign of mental deviance!

OP posts:
Burlea · 30/09/2018 09:52

My friends mother was given a lobotomy just after my friend was born, she ended up being placed in foster care and her mother is still in a care home and has been for over 35 years. Her mother is now on the early stages of dementia doesn't know her daughters name or that she is a grandmother.
Such a sad story.

Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:53

I have an autistic daughter entering her teens, can hardly bear to think about her being born some decades ago.

Yes absolutely. Which is why, when people moan about what a snowflake society we’ve become, how we’re too inclusive, too soft, etc, I think at least it’s so much better than what we came from.

I’m sorry if I’ve depressed some posters with this awful story. I was just so shocked that I had to share it!

OP posts:
Yourenotericlove · 30/09/2018 09:53

It was of it's time. The procedure was deemed to be of benefit in most cases and thousands performed. Freemans mentor who did the groundwork for the procedure won a nobel prize.

We can look back in horror and we should, but at the time many thought it was a life saving procedure.

Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 09:53

Burlea, how awful.

OP posts:
Original poster
IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 30/09/2018 10:01

We can look back in horror and we should, but at the time many thought it was a life saving procedure.

But did they? How many times did the procedure actually work? Or were they just so enthusiastic to have guinea pigs? Genuine question as I can’t imagine it ever worked successfully. I need to do more research.

Joe K must have known the risks but was too politically ambitious to have a rebellious daughter.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove offensive language]

OP posts:
BolleauxtoBankers · 30/09/2018 10:07

There was an excellent play on BBC Radio 4 in 2012 about it, if you can find a way of listening to it, it's worth it, I think. An American Rose
ECT and lobotomies were things still happening in "asylums" when I was a teen in the late Sixties. A not unusual medically sanctioned "treatment".

ShovingLeopard · 30/09/2018 10:10

ECT is still being used now. And can work brilliantly, though can cause memory loss around the time of the procedure. I don't know if the protocol has been refined since it was introduced.

But I agree re lobotomy. How could it ever have worked? And who ever thought it would be ok to experiment with, given the risks? Breathtakingly arrogant.