To be shocked at the appalling treatment of Rosemary Kennedy?

[IfyouseeRitaMoreno]

And even more shocked that the Kennedys never suffered the consequences for what they did to her (well the father to be more precise).

I’ve just found out about her story and can’t stop being horrified. Sister to JFK, she had minor developmental issues, was considered mentally deficient because she had sexual liaisons (the horror!) as a teenager.

Her father, Joe Kennedy, took her without the consent of either her or her mother, for a secret lobotomy with a physician Dr James Watts. It left her unable to walk or speak. It gets worse...

So then they dump her in various institutions and barely visit her for 20 years. Her siblings tried to make up for it in some way (JFK passed a law to help mental illness and her sister introduced the Special Olympics) but her parents just abandoned her and NOTHING happened to the physicians Watts and Freedman who did this to her knowing the risks. Except of course that they went on to have illustrious successful careers.

I also read that 80% of lobotomies were performed on women which shocks me even more. Why?

Will someone else be shocked and horrified with me? I guess I’m just that they could do this to their daughter, cover it up, and face no reprisals.

[post edited by MNHQ to remove offensive language]

It is shocking.

Quite, AamdC.

Indeed Ewits

And MNHQ decided a few months ago that 'moron' is okay. We had the long running 'moron president of the US' thread.

Yet we're not allowed to use this term in a historical context?

It's horrifying, but they also didn't understand mental health in those days. If children had something different about them, then they just wanted it fixed.

It really doesnt make sense does it ?

@ShovingLeopard I've received ECT. Many times. It definitely saved my life. You're right, memory loss is a very difficult side effect. However it's carried out now after all else fails, and with compassion and dignity.

My mum used to do a mobile library service to the (now closed) MH hospital nearby. She told sad tales of elderly women there, who'd been hospitalised for having illegitimate children in their teens (around the 1920s and 30s), they'd never been released, and the hospital was their home. So, so sad.

OP your post (and forgive me I've only read the first page) resonates. It doesn't surprise me though, and that in itself is sad. Thank you for bringing it to light.

Absolutely, Ewits.
I can't. I just can't. I'll get banned.

Yes thats quite Right. missus probably up to the 50,s and 60,s going off the long term rehab patients i have nursef. As i said upthreafd one lady i nursed as a student in the early 1990,s was intially admitted as she had a baby with a black man ,ahe was in her sixties then so she must have had her. Child in the 50,s or 60,s.

@MNHQ please don't delete contextual words and posts. We can cope, we really can. It's actually pretty crap to have deleted historical medical wording and phraseology, as it is what it is. It's not now, and hallelujah, but please, we do not require protection under these circumstances.

I was going to say, please don't link ECT and lobotomy, the latter is discredited. ECT still has its place and is done under general anaesthetic now.

And muscle relaxants its nothing like people think ot might be how old films portray it .

My sons paefiatrician wrote a letter just last week saying he had signicant development delay thos isnt offensive because its precisley what he has fifty years ago they may have used the offwnsive term but that was acceptable for the times i dont see how saying it used to be an accetable term but isnt now is offensive tbh.

Wrong call MNHQ...

And tbh it means exactly the same as it means slow development it is now offensive because it is often used as an insult but histoeically it wasent context is everything

Historically*

Such a shame those posts have been deleted. No one was using the word in a derogatory way but in the context of highlighting the terrible social attitudes behind that terminology.

Oh well, this has been a really interesting although depressing thread at how people who don't fit the mold, in particular women who don't fit the patriarchal Mother Mary mold are treated by the psychiatric profession.

For me it's been eye-opening.

If anyone's interested I first learned of her whilst reading this book "Ocean Liner" about an ocean liner bringing Jews (and the Kennedys) to the US at the beginning of the war. It's really good, a bit romanticized but covers her lobotomy and life right up to the end (as one of the subplots). It made me research her life and quite frankly has made my Sunday a pretty sad one! Just in case anyone was interested in reading it...

My dm was a nurse in a hospital for what they called in those days 'mentally handicapped' (late 70s/early 80s and shut down a long time ago). There was more than one woman in there having been sent away for being promiscuous or having sex outside marriage, mum reckoned in the 40s/50s. I kid you not. There were also a couple of men thrown in there because of they were wayward and no one would have them. (I remember there was one lovely man who'd make mum tea in the morning. She was gutted when he died) The thing is after spending decades in there with no help or mental stimulation, they wouldn't have been capable of living independently outside the hospital. What a horrible society we used to live in.

Just got an email from @lilymumsnet who says they'll put back deleted posts/parts of posts with the offensive word starred out or replaced by 'the r word'.

Seems like a reasonable solution!

Much better! Compromise instead of a blanket ban.

Fair enough i suppose.

Well indeed @MissEliza thankfully times have changed!!

I thinl it woulf be far more useful to have an intelligent discussion as tp why some words are not used anymore and seen as offensive than tnust blank out such words or posts that are still relevant.

The success rate wasn't even good. He mostly killed patients or left them in a vegetable/zombie like state. Unless they were counting that as successful.

I remember watching the documentary and he started getting cocky using 2 icepicks at a time and using his non dominant hand. Just showing off and having nothing to show for it.

When my brother was born in the early 1950’s the jargon of the day classed him as ‘educationally sub-normal’. My mum felt ‘mentally handicapped’ was a better term, just as I use ‘learning disabled’ or ‘developmentally delayed’.