My kids are making me genuinely ill

[Cococabongo]

My kids are 6 and 8 and argue ALL the time. I suspect the 8 year old has other issues that haven't been diagnosed because nobody will take me on.

The oldest will scream like a toddler, slam,throw, yell, hit, smash things, is domineering, know it all, intense, methodical, over bearing, generally an overwhelmingly personality.

I've tried to ask for help from the school but they don't see a problem. In nursery the oldest had to be removed several times a week for intense meltdowns, at school the first two years he had a special corner for himself to go and sit in when he felt 'angry' as the school said.

He's constantly wanting to be the center of attention. The younger one constantly complains and cries. My husband says he hates the weekends because in all honesty it's just two days of shouting, screaming and stress.

We don't have family help, never get a break. My anxiety is through the roof, the behaviour is getting worse.

I've told the school I'm struggling, I've been getting panic attacks and going to the ER as the stress is so much I feel unwell.
I've got medication and a counsellor but I dread DREAD DREAD the weekends.

I take the kids to youth clubs, activities, I try to join clubs to socialise but the weekend is like living in a lunatic asylum.

Kids shouting and crying and screaming, arguing. Husband stressing, me feeling panic and sick at every little noise of distress.

I honestly am genuinely feeling unwell. I don't know what to do. I've tried bonding classes with the eldest, no avail. I just can't wait until the weekend is over. I hate night times because the eldest sleep walks and refuses to go to bed, always a tantrum and chasing him round the house to get to bed, can take over an hour.

I've tried talking, understanding, explaining to the kids, reasoning, loving, rewarding, charts, EVERYTHING. I hate being a parent I never knew it would be so difficult and nobody would help out.

I suppose it's ok for people who have family to help but it's literally us, or I feel me who has to carry the weight of everything! I'm so anxious all the time I worry I'm dying or I'm seriously ill because of the stress I can't seem to escape from!

have you tried positive parenting? praising good behaviour, and keeping quiet and letting them talk to you while you listen,
are they any parenting groups you can go to for help?
try askign school nurse?

he knows he can relax and behave how he wants at home, he is on his Good behaviour at school but it is tiring for him

It sounds to me they’re good at school because of boundaries and a routine, they know what’s expected. Your house just sounds like chaos. Good idea to take each child out separately and spend time with them. You need to find something you like doing together. Have you tried playing board games? A family that play together stay together. A walk seeing if they can spot certain trees and animals, maybe make a card and play bingo as they spot things. You need to sort it before the teenage years then the real challenge begins

I’ve heard so many parents say that the kids get home and have a meltdown because they’ve held it together all day at school. I echo the have one child each at the weekend or swap over for different days.

Cococa If it's any consolation, we went through this (they're adults now) and we're still here to tell the tale. Push really hard to get a diagnosis for your eldest and the support he and you need. While you're waiting for help, a pp suggested "divide and conquer." We did this and it really worked. We found ds needed quiet, unwinding time at the weekend (also as suggested by a pp) We took it in turns to take other dc out every Saturday for activities. The parent at home kept things very quiet, laid back, even just watching TV. It worked. Then Sundays a family walk in the countryside or park. This tired them both and going home was more peaceful. Once you have a diagnosis, then you can take it from there. Education, support, strategies, etc. I do sympathise and know how you feel.

Could you keep a diary of behaviour to try and establish some patterns to the problematic behaviour? Is it worse at the end of the week, purely on weekends, before or after meals, for example?

Op.. your eldest is masking at school, it's very common. Ignore the teachers they aren't trained. If you can afford it go get a private as assessment done on your eldest. There are behaviour issuee that could be related to asd. It sounds much like PDA. Which I suspect my eldest has too. I relate. To a lot of your post. I would separate the kids as much as possible at the weekend for now until you get some proper help.take turns with each one forget the housework and go easy on yourselves.
Please please please make time for yourself every day been ten minutes. If you are serious about getting an assesent done you need to be strong.
Take up mindfulness I know it sounds wanky but it works.
To pp who suggested a Supernanny wtf? You need professional medical help. I wish you good luck op x

@gin

It sounds to me they’re good at school because of boundaries and a routine, they know what’s expected. Your house just sounds like chaos. Good idea to take each child out separately and spend time with them. You need to find something you like doing together. Have you tried playing board games?

No it is called masking and they keep compusure through out the day and ecause home is a safe space..they lash out.
Think if a Coke bottle in a pocket all day being shaken around. It's fuck all to do with boundaries. Wish people would educate themselves before saying rubbish judgemental crap like this.

I have a son with HFA and an older one with dyspraxia, and there were very stressful weekends at that age.
It is difficult to disentangle your own anxiety as a mum from their anxiety as children but what tends to happen is you get a toxic combination, they feed negatively off your anxiety which is in turn caused by their behaviour.
The first thing is to get a diagnosis or recognition that they genuinely have problems (or possibly just the first) and it is not in your imagination. No, you are not the cause of their problems and you will find yourself relentlessly accused of contributing to their behaviour or being anxious unnecessarily when a few tricks would sort them out. I don't agree with the idea that a supernanny has tricks that the rest of us cannot come up with. A supernanny perhaps has more experience of wide range of developmental problems but you ultimately will be much much better placed to understand and help your child.

So first, diagnosis. Ask you GP to arrange a referral if the school won't. Remind the school about his angry behaviour in years R -2 and his meltdowns in nursery leading to him being removed. Remind them the routine of school and observing "rules" may be contributing to him masking. Find an article in Google about Masking in HFA children at school. Stay calm, this is your son's anxiety and frustration, and not about you, you are defending his right to have a weekend that is calm and pleasant not just yours. He must be feeling very anxious and that is why he is behaving like this. It is a symptom of Asperger's dyspraxia adhd to get anxious and then explosive and controlling.

Second, how can you make your own life easier in the meantime. You are working really hard to keep the peace and put in strategies, but it is taking its toll on you. Take a step back and think about simplifying the goals you set yourself. Meals - could you go to Macdonalds for lunch, or have a ready meal occasionally, or go to favourite cafe at the weekend for simple meal. Tidying house, could you throw mess into baskets. Bedtimes, could he stay up later and possibly do a jigsaw or lego before bed, even if you feel like you cannot bear another minute of him. Swimming followed by the same tv programme every sat is good, my husband used to stay behind and prepare tea so it was ready when we got in. Pjs after swimming so no need to change twice. It is so hard not having family and friends to help, we suffered a lot from that lack of someone to "look after" us at least for one cup of tea a week, so in the end we compensated by going out to cafe occasionally for a meal with the kids. Same cafe every time so they weren't phased.
Ds like doing the same activities every weekend, and knowing what his routine was. The idea of spontaneous activity was a killer in our family (I had three close together) they liked to know what was happening next.
I used to have a rest every afternoon and leave dh in charge for two hours, he did Lego with them. Other people I know had dh baking with kids for two hours. It sounds pathetic but these little breaks will keep you sane. And then vice versa. Have a friend with kids round occasionally, same friend, build up a familiar circle, hard as it seems, they value friends from outside even if it seems to cause meltdowns, just a chnage of scene and faces cna help, once you model it in a familiar routine way.

It got better from 12 onwards. 9 seemed to be the worst stage for aggression and explosiveness.

Ds is lovely now, still quite set, loves going to football matches and not really difficult at all!! (apart from the forgetfulness, just had to point out to him where his belt was after saying for umpteenth time it was in his drawer) Loves going on trips on train, still argues ferociously with brother but we did a lot of separating them and I think it was worth it to improve the quality of our interaction as individuals.

Don't be hard on yourself. Give yourself permission to scale down expectations too of family life. It can be pretty awful at this stage, and other people's idea of what constitutes a fun weekend will not be everyone's experience. We've noticed swings and roundabouts and those who had great time when children were younger have often ended with sulky teens, and just cannot understand it, whereas ours tend to enjoy doing things iwth us and are quite independent.

I would also remind yourself to keep up with the bonding activity, when you are traumatised you need to put a special effort to reconnect and fake it till you make it. building/making things with them which aren't too difficult or messy, sitting side by side watching a tv programme, taking a bit of time to do something very ordinary, like washing a plate in bubbles or hanging out the washing [badly], can help a lot, whereas bigger more obvious fun things can sadly go terribly wrong like treats or outings or even craft activities.

we did lots of singing. Everyone laughed and it defused tension (the right songs that is, the wrong songs made everyone angry!) Joseph, Matilda, Oklahoma, My Fair Lady, were all good. And Tchaikovsky ballet favourites. For boys!

Agree with Cheeeeis spot on.

Fuck that’s hard

If it were my friend I would suggest the following

Both parents having some break time every weekend
Both parents having one to one

Then when feeling calmer writing a concise but succinct summary and refusing to leave the doctors until they try and helps

And sorry but I would also research possible medication

X

One short term solution could be to have a 'chill out' time as the kids come out of school.

Speak to them first, ask what would help them them unwind after the day, and then arrange a place for each of them to relax. They need to de-stress if they've been holding it together during the day. Find something they can do individually, quietly, completely apart. e.g. each read/watch TV/play a game. Give them snacks and a drink and leave them alone for half an hour.

Have the same arrangement for certain times during the weekends.

People with ASD really need alone time to get themselves in balance. My DD is diagnosed and she thrives when given enough down time, and completely clams up, has anxiety attacks etc if life gets too busy. Even fun activities can be too much. So - plan some 'nothing' time, but they have to stay apart, listen to music, whatever they find soothing. Knowing that they have that 'time out' coming can help them cope at other times.

And get to a GP, with a FULL list of issues, frequency etc.

Also... please don't feel discouraged by advice from parents who have never been in your situation. Normal discipline techniques rarely help (I know!) and can actually escalate situations. Behavioral problems at this level require super-parenting skills (which most of us are not equipped with) and often a lot of outside help.

Everything you said in your second post rang a bell for me. Including teachers comments to that affect...even the phrase X does not have ADHD well Many kids can focus on holding it together at school and end up breaking down at home where they feel safe to do so.
I have also felt that way around my child at times it is exhausting!
Keep pushing for some help. Ask for CAHMS referall

Dh played a LOT of simple board games with them. To start there were endless rows and storming off, but they've developed the ability to cope wtih losing now, and the effort he put in has paid off. They love playing Monopoly and just about managing Risk now at 16 and 18. Football didn't work till they were over 8, too many scenes. Just don't compare yourself with other families. I used to get anxious when people said their children played all day in the garden or created imaginary worlds or painted or played Racing Demon, but your children will surprise you at some point and you won't want to swop them with anyone else's.

I also agree that the GP is a good place to start.

A friend of mine has a 4 sons, all of whom have now been diagnosed with "something" - the oldest has Asperger's, the second isn't on the spectrum but has anxiety but it was the youngest 2 that were the hardest on her. Close in age, like your 2 (1.5 years apart) very different characters, both with different issues but it was the younger of this pair that sounds most like your boy. Held it together at school, so that his school reports sounded like a completely different child than the one his mother knew at home - at home he was like a wild thing, and would constantly fight with and provoke his older brother, who had been already diagnosed with dyspraxia, verbal apraxia and some sensory processing disorder. She also hated and loathed weekends and especially holidays.

Since then, the youngest son has been diagnosed with Tourette's; and, following on from that, his nearest brother now also has a diagnosis of Tourette's (as well as dyspraxia and SPD). The tics they have are becoming more pronounced at school as they get older (now 9 and nearly 11)

So that's another thing to consider.

Board games and walks! Excellent, now we all have the answer to dealing with children with mental health issues. I shall immediately call CAMHS and let them know how to spend their (hugely inadequate) money better.

Well done Gin96 🙄

I spoke to the HV and the school and a teacher even said no he doesn't have ADHD or anything like that because he can control his behaviour. He's much better at school than at home
I wish I could secretly film his behaviour to show people he's like a different child behind closed doors, snarling and growling etc

Unfortunately, the people you spoke to are not qualified to diagnose any SEN or SN, so please do make an appointment with your GP and take a video with you of your son showing his out of control behaviour and a say weeks diary of the incidences and frequencies.

Some kids "mask" all day at school and that results in them letting all the day's frustrations out at home which they see as a safe space to let it all go.
It's possible that your son is taking on all the overload of the school day internally and when at home, or sometimes even on the way home, his level of coping is exceeded and he has to let those frustrations out the only way he knows how.

Schools "don't notice" because if a child is academically okay and not disruptive in class, they don't "see" any problems. It often ends up where a parent is told the child can choose how to behave at school so they can choose how to behave at home. This is NOT true if there are underlying reasons for the behaviour.

However, that's not to say school are the be all and end all of observations. Ask on the SN boards, SNChat and SNChildren have posters who can give you some advice from their experience, or at least have a read through them and see if your situation sounds familiar, and see what other people advise parents in your situation.

I know it's difficult to deal with, but you need to know why he behaves the way he does. He's asking for help the only way he knows how.

I find very energetic activities tire them out and help. Drag them on long walks - maybe borrow/get a dog? Swimming? Lazerquest? (not paintballing).

Baths stimulate at nighttime so have them a little earlier.

Remove lots of visionary stimulants from bedrooms - make sure toys are put away and out of side.

Is any one good at having one/both of them for a few hours - get out with your partner for a few hours or send one off to a friends/relatives.

Split them up between you and your partner and do something one on one.

Get two tablets - screen time helps to distract them.

Lego kits - get them building together with one parent taking turns at being architect, supplier or builder roles.

I agree with all the good advice you’ve been given here. I had many years of hating being a parent, but my DCs are much easier now and I can actually sleep, relax and enjoy myself and them.

At the weekends my DH and I used to split with one DC each, doing different things. So much easier with one.

Whether you get a diagnosis or not, you still need to find your own way to deal with behaviour issues. I always strictly timetable each day, telling my DC a day in advance what we will be doing. I still do this now with my younger DS, and I think he likes the structure of knowing that it’s shower, then playing, then lunch at 1pm, homework at 2, and XBox at 3....

If my DS had a meltdown but then he dealt with it by taking time-out and then joining in with the family, then I’d really praise him and tell him that we all feel out-of-sorts at times, and we need to make our own strategies of helping ourselves.

I found that as she got older the meltdowns improved and her sleeping improved. She was very anxious and still is but is now less willing to be held firmly/hugged tightly (one of our calming down strategies). I think it's a combination of her improving, her getting older and me learning how to deal better with her.

There was a lot of masking when at school and we had explosions when she got home. When she's tired we know to be on our guard.

I totally empathise as we've been there with DS1.

At 9 years old he won a "role model" award at school...I remember being at parents' evening and feeling drained and just wanted to cry; whilst they told me how amazingly polite, well behaved and generally impeccable at school, at home he terrorised his siblings, was rude and controlling and had meltdowns constantly.

We never had him diagnosed but I remember feeling like you. I think we have found ways of dealing with him, but still now (he is 12) he has his moments....especially in the long holidays.

We found that being on his own with a parent was very good for him, although obviously for us it was harder (with 4 children!!) for you this would definitely be something worth trying. Making one to one time with him definitely served the situation well and calmed him down.

Having time on his own regularly, especially after coming home from school. Not springing stuff on him last minute but having a routine (difficult sometimes) and letting him be in charge of some of his time - e.g. letting him plan the weekend or some of the time on holiday.

The good thing about being older is that he can articulate what works/doesn't work for him, so we can adjust/accommodate. It is really hard and you are not a bad parent...our other children were nothing like him so we know it wasn't our parenting/lack of boundaries although in fairness I think he does need harder ones at times.

But he isn't a different child at school is he? They gave him a safe space for when he feels anger. Why?
Could you do a SAT for school records and ask them to specifically include all paperwork relating to behaviour and their reasoning for providing a safe space.

I understand that feeling if Ill due to having a child with needs. My son is autistic. He's an only child and I've often said that's been my saving grace for a quiet home life as he cannot abode people in his space it creating noise etc when he needs time out.

Bless you it does sound very very hard. xxxxx

First of all i think you just need some support, does your children's school have a family support worker? Maybe you can chat to them and they can make some suggestions. Or they can arrange someone to come and give you some parenting tips. My son is a bit of a handful and a bit all over the place due to me and his father separating. My health visitor arranged a lady to come around and discuss some positive parenting tips on how to handle him. Im guessing you no longer deal with a health visitor being that your youngest is 6?