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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU in thinking a drunken 18 year old boy should not be called to account for behaviour 35 years later?

436 replies

longwayoff · 28/09/2018 16:43

I'm conflicted. Brett Kavanaugh, nominated by Trump as a Supreme Court judge, has been accused of locking Dr Christine Blasey Ford in a bedroom and sexually assaulting her. This happened in the early 1980s when they were teens at a party and he was very drunk, she hadnt been drinking. She says she is 100 percent certain he did this. He says wasn't me guv.
Her televised evidence was upsetting and convincing. I believe what she says and feel she should have whatever she needs to help her. BUT. Drunken 18 year old boy/man. All these years later? Is that fair? To wreck his career now? Personally, I loathe Trump and all his works, so politically I'm glad to see a fail. But this is not sitting well with me. I feel I should feel better about this. Convince me please.

OP posts:
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Jux · 29/09/2018 21:31

pumpkinspice perfectly put. Thank you.

CaptSkippy · 29/09/2018 21:38

If he didn't have to face the consequences then, he should face them now. What he did still has consequences for her and she is the actual victim in this case, not him.

CommanderDaisy · 29/09/2018 21:46

As a few other posters have said, Kavanaughs behaviour on the stand completely destroyed his credibility as a man who should be in the position of Supereme Court justice. The snivelling, shouting, sulking , petulant display - his virtual TV ads prior to the hearing, NONE of those things speak to an individual who should be beyond reproach, ruling the over the laws of the land.That behaviour would never be allowed in his courtroom- that he feels it's fine there is one rule for him, another for others - speaks additionaly poorly of him

That there is even a whiff of suspiscion about his behaviour towards women ( and there's more than an whiff about him given his submissive wife stoically placed in camera view behind him silently and stagily weeping plus the multiple accusers) makes him inelegible to stand.

Imagine OP, if you had Brock Tyler ( if him and his rich Daddy have had his charges expunged in their never-evending harassment of his victim) being in Kavanaughs position? Would you think it unfair that the crime he was cleared of earlier because he was drunk and young meant he couldn't stand in a postion of authority?

Do you feel the same way about Bill Cosby? Or Jimmy Saville? Why destroy their careers now?

Tough shit is my opinion.

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 29/09/2018 22:30

The man should be called to account for his behaviour last Thursday. That performance alone was enough to prove him entirely unsuitable for the position of Supreme Court Justice.

Regardless of whether or not you believe the allegations

prettybird · 30/09/2018 00:18

Cold - you've said what I posted earlier, but you've done so sooooo much more succinctly!

By his own words, attitude and approach on Thursday, he has proven himself unsuitable for the role.

Not that Trump will see it that way: a man after his own heart Angry

madeoficecream · 30/09/2018 00:19

yes of course he should if hes never actually address it and explained it or apologised for it or even bloody properly acknowledged it..... and certainly if he wants to hold a position of power over other people!!

ColdNeverBotheredMeAnyway · 30/09/2018 00:22

prettybird I thought what you said was spot on, and very nearly just wrote 'What Prettybird said'!

FastWindow · 30/09/2018 00:31

So here's a thing I said on seeing Cosby led away in cuffs.
'Was that really necessary? He's 81, mostly blind, hardly likely to be a danger to the police at this point.'
My DH was quite angry at my lenience.
We had a conversation about when I was abused in the 90s, by a man who would now be 51. Turns out, I'm all for the cuffs and the humiliation for abusers. Fuckem.

veeboo · 30/09/2018 00:31

OP I just wonder what your parameters are for when it is right to hold a man to account for his behaviour? Just how old and how sober must he be? Brett Kavanaugh is applying for office to a position that he will hold for the rest of his lifetime due to archaic policies set by men. A role which will make him one of the single most powerful individuals on the planet.

prettybird · 30/09/2018 00:33

My ds, who turned 18 a couple of weeks ago and has just started Uni (and was still 17 during Freshers Week Shock) has, when I have nagged him about things via WhatsApp, like "Be careful about fraudsters trying to access your bank account", or "Don't be pressurised into taking drugs" or "Don't ever get into a car with someone you think might not be safe to drive" has sent back a terse, "Mum, I know this stuff" GrinBlush

I don't even need to do this to him about consent (including drunken consent not being consent), as I know he knows this stuff: it's been talked about at school (as part of their SHRE stuff - Sex, Health and relationships Education) and talked about regularly at home as part of "this is what decent people do".

Shame no-one appears to have done this with Kavanaugh or Trump Sad

FastWindow · 30/09/2018 00:55

By 18 years old, you know what's what. You've seen a bunch of stuff. You are no longer a boy or a girl - you are an adult. You've spent 3 or 4 years trying to be one.

Most of all, you should bloody know what's right and wrong by that age. The 3-4 years you spent getting it wrong is the lesson.

morgsusername · 30/09/2018 01:10

You realise with that attitude, you are part of our rape culture?

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 30/09/2018 01:27

Original op you must realise that what you said was inaccurate and offensive.
It really doesn’t matter how old or how young you are. If you commit a crime of abuse or murder , in any form, you are accountable.
Rape, war crimes, murder , if we are lucky enough to catch and try these evil bastards then all to the good.
I don’t really give a flying fuck if a known abuser is ‘old’ or ‘blind’
And if at 18yo you are capable of treating a woman so appallingly having had a few drinks, well, what kind of adult are you now?

Starlive23 · 30/09/2018 01:31

Is this post a piss take?

PCPlumsTruncheon · 30/09/2018 02:23

I was raped at a party when I was 15. There was a gang of boys watching and laughing and clapping and talking about who would ‘go’ next. I managed to get out of there before they drew lots about who would go next.
This was 35 years ago but I remember everything in minute detail.
I remember my mum saying that, when you have a baby, the world closes in on you and you remember every second of giving birth - every word said by midwives or doctors, every time you looked at the clock etc etc.
The same is true of trauma - you remember everything.
I have a 16 year old daughter - blonde. blue eyed, legs that go up to her neck.
I see men eyeing her up and talking to each other and making horrible gestures about what they would like to do to her.
It makes me feel sick. I’m 50 and it feels like nothing has changed since I was her age

counterpoint · 30/09/2018 02:45

Sadly, the moral of the story might be taken as; after an assault say nothing, get on with your life and studies but wait for the right time to fire your vulnerability as a women, like a political cannon to bring someone down. Not because assault is wrong, but because it's useful?

Being assaulted is now a latent, putative weapon of destruction?

That is, choose wisely who and when you destroy. Where's the other chap who was supposedly also involved?

echt · 30/09/2018 02:50

Sadly, the moral of the story might be taken as; after an assault say nothing, get on with your life and studies but wait for the right time to fire your vulnerability as a women, like a political cannon to bring someone down. Not because assault is wrong, but because it's useful?

You really think the victims planned their lives around this possible opportunity?

Being assaulted is now a latent, putative weapon of destruction?

If you can bring the fucker to book as and when, go for it.

counterpoint · 30/09/2018 02:52

If you witness a murder, I'm sure it must be devastating, traumatic, emotionally painful, life changing. It would satay with you. Assault must be similar. But are you right to wait 30 years before reporting witnessing the murder? No, you have a sense of duty to report ASAP. That should be the message to pass on, surely?

Jux · 30/09/2018 02:56

putative what on earth are you talking about Grin if it wasn't so awful I would be laughing

Uncreative · 30/09/2018 02:58

Counterpoint, if that it what you get from reading this, you are reading something very different to me.

Equating experiencing sexual assault to witnessing a murder is ridiculous. You have clearly not experienced either.

counterpoint · 30/09/2018 02:59

If you can bring the fucker to book as and when, go for it.

Why should you get to choose when to report a crime?

counterpoint · 30/09/2018 03:03

Equating experiencing sexual assault to witnessing a murder is ridiculous. You have clearly not experienced either

With all due respect, I am deeply sorry if you have had the misfortune of experiencing both. One is bad enough.

But why would reporting traumatic assault be less important than reporting murder?

echt · 30/09/2018 03:08

Why should you get to choose when to report a crime?

There's a wealth of reasons why women don't report sexual assault/rape. Here's one of them:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0736467908000358

But then you know this don't you. The evidence has been out their for years.

pumkinspicetime · 30/09/2018 03:13

It is usually rather hard to report a murder if you are a victim. So I'm thinking that the two issues are not similar.

karyatide · 30/09/2018 03:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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