AIBU in thinking a drunken 18 year old boy should not be called to account for behaviour 35 years later?

[longwayoff]

I'm conflicted. Brett Kavanaugh, nominated by Trump as a Supreme Court judge, has been accused of locking Dr Christine Blasey Ford in a bedroom and sexually assaulting her. This happened in the early 1980s when they were teens at a party and he was very drunk, she hadnt been drinking. She says she is 100 percent certain he did this. He says wasn't me guv.
Her televised evidence was upsetting and convincing. I believe what she says and feel she should have whatever she needs to help her. BUT. Drunken 18 year old boy/man. All these years later? Is that fair? To wreck his career now? Personally, I loathe Trump and all his works, so politically I'm glad to see a fail. But this is not sitting well with me. I feel I should feel better about this. Convince me please.

I struggle to believe that any person would put themselves in the position of retelling s sexual assault on the world stage unless it was true or they were quite a troubled person. And she didn’t seem troubled (in that sense). There is of course always scope for error in events that happened so long ago and the law presumes a person innocent until proven otherwise. He should therefore be treated as such. What I cannot understand is how, where such serious allegations have been made, a major judicial appointment can be made without police investigation and, if necessary, trial.

As to the OP I struggle with the idea that this can be categorised as youthful indiscretion which should be let lie. This was not a hand on knee situation. Yes everyone at some point should have the opportunity for redemption but that doesn’t make the person fit for high office. I agree with the point that - if he did this - he is lucky to have had the career he has had so far.

@glagdy thank God I don't have brothers, mine would create monsters. We just need to make sure we educate our sons better.

It's 100% relevant to the office he's running for. The nature of the offence shows an attitude that essentially treats women as objects. It's absolutely legitimate to be concerned about that attitude in someone who is going to be asked to adjudicate on matters directly relevant to women, particularly in relation to issues such as abortion and rape. The fact that it was long ago if anything exacerbates the problem: he's spent the intervening period realising his ambitions, he doesn't appear ever to have looked back and tried to do something to atone.

This horrible post from the OP reminds me of that American boy who raped his unconscious victim but it was okay because he was “a champion high school swimmer”.

The thing I'm struggling most with is that so many women are defending Kavaunagh as though the last 35 years have erased the choices he made back then. Women who have been likely assaulted at some point through their own lives are defending the rights of this man, asking for "substantial evidence".

I always believed very strongly in justice. I always believed very firmly that any woman reporting an assault should be believed and heard. Now I just think Ford's life is going to be ripped apart for nothing while another self-pitying mouthy white man gets a promotion.

I'm American and I know other Americans who were tried in their early teens and still live with the consequences nearly twenty years later, and none of them were accused of violent crimes or going through the process of being part of the Supreme Court. There are enough other well-qualified people and I have no issue with him being treated just as anyone who wanted an important job with rumours about their conduct would be.

Maybe if he had more consequences in that expensive, selective high school where he was at 18 before he went to Yale (when drinking would still be illegal for him anyways), then he wouldn't need consequences now. Much like Brock Turner who graduated from a high school that is very well-known in the area for being big on appearance and looking the other way and playing hush for students and the wealthy parents. Maybe if people were brought to account more, there wouldn't be so many of us who spend years not coming forward.

Someone on my Facebook has just referred to it as 'teen horseplay' and 'hijinks'.

I did not victim blame. I asked what happened.

Can we please not conflate 'sex offender' with 'drunken boy'. TIA.

He could have at least acknowledged what he did, that he fucked up.

He didn’t. That’s what makes this worse, so much worse. He’s just denying it all which is bollocks.

Your OP is disgusting. As someone who's sister was raped aged 14 and didn't report it until many years later, you never forgive and you never forget. She's been in a physchiatric ward since she admitted what happens, and it's ruined her life. Fuck off

What a depressing OP. We’ve still got such a long way to go. The man who attacked me when I was 17 must be nearly 80 now. Probably I should just let it go, eh, it was a long time ago

I excuse the OP because this is what the patriarchy has conditioned us to think all these years! Youthful hijinx/locker room and all that shit. It’s only recently the mainstream is waking up to it!
Kavanaugh’s performance yesterday sickened me to the core. He’s the victim, the reference to his daughter, the fact he genuinely believes himself to be innocent - because he was so dismissive of what he did to Prof Ford and those other women it didn’t even matter enough to remember it. so OP you are very wrong, but I hope some of the wisdom I’ve read above about the importance of moral integrity of a lifetime appointee to the SCOTUS has resonated with you.

If he didn't want his past to be investigated, and be brought to account for his behaviour he shouldn't have sought a career as a Supreme Court Justice.

He has voluntarily put himself in a position where he ought to expect scrutiny of his past behaviour. It's an astonishing indication of his entitled attitude that he is so affronted that anyone would actually questions this.

Disgusting man.

If Kavanaugh had said "I was young, it was wrong, I am ashamed and
sorry" that would be one thing.

What he actually did is aggressively deny it, under oath. What I saw on TV is the behaviour a blustering bully, who has for years considered himself untouchable and is not going to let anything get in his way of what he wants.

There are many things adolescents do that should be forgiven and forgotten, but sexual assault is not compatible with serving on the highest court of the most powerful country in the country for the rest of his life.

If Kavanaugh had said "I was young, it was wrong, I am ashamed and
sorry" that would be one thing.

I agree - not on the sexual assault accusation, obviously - an apology doesn't excuse that. But on the questions around whether he drank beer when he was young (of course he did!) he couldn't even answer that directly, batting it back at the Senator and waffling, blustering and interrupting. Does he honestly expect anyone to believe he was whiter than white virginial tee total teen?

Also on the lewd language in his yearbook and his calendar. Rather than lie, if he'd owned it and said yeah those things referred to beer and girls, and he was a silly teen... he would have gained a LOT more sympathy.

However, admitting to underage drinking and making lewd jokes about women would have undermined his defence... so he's had to lie. And he made himself look like a dick.

YABU and also misogynistic and creepy

Oh gosh. His poor CAREER.

Let’s give this incompetent abusive man MORE power so we don’t ruin his life like he ruined these women’s lives.

Yeah, if they are drunk or on drugs and under like say 25, they should totally get away with sexually someone. Poor young guys who didn’t know any better.

Said no one. Ever.

Disgusting and yes YABVVU 🤬

Amazing isn't it. If you ask anyone "Do you believe in 'innocent till proven guilty'" anyone with half a brain says "Yes". No one wants to be part of the 'no smoke without fire' mob. Before you know it they'd be carrying pitchforks and flaming torches.

What has this guy actually been convicted of?

Yesterday was not a court of law and her testimony was not corroborated and went unchallenged. His was not corroborated but he was challenged personally quite a lot. I don’t think he showed himself as very likeable but that is not the point.

Why should we automatically believe her over him? Surely that is just as bad as automatically backing up a man who says his groping was misconstrued and he was just being friendly. People lie all the time and some people do it very well.

All of the allegations should all go to trial and he should be convincted or acquitted by a jury. If he is acquitted, then he will be considered an innocent man. If he is found guilty, then he can be jailed. He should be treated like any other man accused of attempted rape.

On the other hand, if any of the accusers (there were 3 last time I looked) are making up these allegations and it can be proved, then they should be tried for perjury and punished if convicted.

I don’t know what superpowers you all have but I am not going to sit in judgment of either of them without knowledge of all the facts. Trial by social media is not going to do society any favours in the long run.

Appearing on my Facebook feed this evening....

@karyatide - eloquent and well said.