To ask you all to tune in to This Morning?

[RepealtheGRA]

And watch fabulous Mumsnetter PosieParker?

I particularly hope their viewers google Miranda Yardley.

I think the This Morning interview was ok,I think Posie did well. It was set up for her to look mean, there will be viewers who don't think past not being mean who will decide she was in the wrong, but most women are more complex than that and if they knew nothing about the issue, Posie has managed to fit quite a few facts in.
I think the SKY interview was less informative, I just watched it now. I think posters here are just happy Harrop got to look stupid, but there was less content. I know that was a freedom of speech issue, but it would have helped for Posie to explain the version of "woman" Harrop espouses includes men who occasionally cross dress.
Lastly, the mention of the castrated 16 year old was genuinely brave and will have shocked viewers. The only problem is in failing to mention the vast majority of trans women keep their penis and don't even take hormones, the public again conflate trans with transsexual.

I've watched it now and I have to say I thought that she was really good. What I really like about her is that she is calm unflustered direct honest and really doesn't seem to care what people think. She's speaking the truth and that seems to be a revolutionary thing to do at the moment.

The Metro are calling Posie a "disrespectful woman". That's her told

The metro? Is that the rag that refers to child rape victims as ‘having sex’?

Why do women have to be full of empathy for transwomen all the time?

They are not the only group in the world that have troubles in life. MeToo demonstrated the daily harassment that women face. Yet we are still criticised constantly for not 'showing empathy' to a group of biological males.

Biological males should acknowledge and 'show empathy' for the troubles women face on a daily basis by staying out of the single sex spaces our mothers and grandmothers had to fight damn hard for. They fought for them for our physical safety, not our feelings, and all these calls to forfeit them in order to show empathy for the feelings of those increasingly associated with sexual deviancy are extraordinary. Telling biological males and sex offenders 'no' is not transphobic.

Why do women have to be full of empathy for transwomen all the time?

They are not the only group in the world that have troubles in life. MeToo demonstrated the daily harassment that women face. Yet we are still criticised constantly for not 'showing empathy' to a group of biological males.

Empathy is not a zero sum game. You can empathise with many people or groups of people at the same time. It’s not a limited resource.

It is when it requires us to give up single sex spaces. You cannot have biological males in a female sex space and still call it a single sex space.

Besides which, has India Willoughby as a random instance shown empathy for the amount of male violence and discrimination women face yet?

Why do women have to be full of empathy for transwomen all the time?

Well, empathy isn’t usually all that transient... either you are capable of empathy or you aren’t. Faced with a real person saying “if I was raped, where could I go?”, it displays distinct lack of empathy to shrug, sneer and say “make your own refuge”.

It isn’t one or the other. Loads of posters on MN say they are full of empathy for trans people, they just take issue with aspects of the proposed legislation on self id; as do lots of trans people who post on MN. I always thought people who said “MN is transphobic” were completely wrong, as I’d only ever seen people saying they support the rights of trans people to live the life they want, but wanted more discussion around self id.

The interview this morning really didn’t mirror the sentiments I’ve seen posted about on here. I fully expected the interview to be a bit of a turning point and a step forward to a healthy debate about self id, but it was actually a bit of an own goal imo.

It is when it requires us to give up single sex spaces

Empathising with trans people does not require you to give up single sex spaces. I think you’re possibly oversimplifying.

But that is exactly what the historical response to women who have been raped was. In fact women usually get worse - they usually get told "no it didn't happen", and "what were you doing to ask for it then". They would then have their sex lives raked through and told what utter worthless shits they are.

If Posie had said that instead, would you or India Willoughby have accepted the authentic female experience and been overjoyed that her womanhood was being validated?

Empathising with trans people does not require you to give up single sex spaces. I think you’re possibly oversimplifying.

Oh, so all you want us to do is pat them on the head and say 'awwh poor you'? You don't want me to accept the takeover of women shortlists, awards, women sports and physical spaces by biological males? I can go with that.

Yes, that’s the history and it is obviously terrible. As if it needs to be said. But, why would you want to inflict that on someone else, regardless of their gender?

Oh, so all you want us to do is pat them on the head and say 'awwh poor you'? You don't want me to accept the takeover of women shortlists, awards, women sports and physical spaces by biological males? I can go with that.

No, of course not. I think it’s possible to empathise with someone while also not agreeing with everything they want. I do it all the time.

No, of course not. I think it’s possible to empathise with someone while also not agreeing with everything they want. I do it all the time.

Get outta here with your measured, sensible perspective Annabel :P

Because unfortunately there are a lot of people operating under the trans banner who want to inflict more of exactly that on us, without check or right of reply. India Willoughby herself has exhibited exactly the same kind of aggressive male behaviour that leads to such actions. As have various other transwomen and their supporters, to varying degrees.

Their catchphrases of 'nodebate' and 'transphobic' demonstrate an aggressive refusal to listen to women's concerns.

Annabel, you're acting as though there arent already rape crisis centres for both sexes.

Also, i think outside of a therapy situation empathy has to work both ways in order for any kind of relationship to function

I like Posie and I agree with her.

If transwomen want safe spaces, toilets, refuges, hospital wards etc I will quite happily fight alongside them but I don't want them in mine.

I've had my physical safety put at risk before because of this very issue, it was not pleasant.

If the only problem with the interview was that Posie wasn't empathic enough, then there's no big problem, and weirdly I was arguing on FWR earlier for people to mind their language.

But, the touchstone for feminism has always been 'Would this happen to a man'! A transperson today got a faint taste of what it would really be like to be a woman, and look at all the sympathy displayed for them. It's a little over the top.

Besides which, has India Willoughby as a random instance shown empathy for the amount of male violence and discrimination women face yet?

Last thing I heard India say about male violence was that the website that was set up to record deaths of women by men...was horrible because it makes men look bad and India feels sorry for the men.

Of course she feels sorry for the men cos she's a laydee doing lovely laydee things, like being all concerned about all the poor men. Unlike us most un-laydee-like not proper women women.