to think it's not a bad thing that life expectancy has stalled in the first world?

[A580Hojas]

I mean, really?

Why should we all expect to outlive our parents if they died at some point in their late 70s or early 80s?

I am quite old in Mumsnet terms but I don't feel entitled to live to 90 or 95 or whatever.

Very old people staying alive for a year or two more isn't something to be celebrated is it? I say this as someone with a parent in reasonable health in their late 80s.

I (don’t) hate to do this but I will. Quoting the (immense) West Wing; the code of our humanity is faithful service to that unwritten commandment that says we shall give our children better than we ourselves received.

We want our children to have better, be better, live better than we had opportunity to do so. Longevity is a marker of our commitment to society and the believe in continuous improvement. There are still parts of the UK where life expectancy is below the retirement age - do you want that for the next generation?

It has stalled in the UK. We do not have the highest life expectancy as a country in the world. So this means something is going wrong.

I think the devil will be in the detail here.

I think if you look at the figures, people with reasonable incomes will still show the same or increased life expectancy and as usual, the people at the lower end are seeing their life expectancy drop.

If you're ok with that, perhaps you'd like to explain why.

The decline is due to people dying younger due to preventable health conditions
that is NOT a good thing

Life expectancy is calculated as an average. It’s not about getting 85 year olds to live to 87, it’s about stopping 45 year olds dying of heart attacks and diabetes.

We're only built to live a certain amount of time, anything after and planned obsolescence kicks in. Sure you can keep trying to squeeze a few more years out of a life, but they won't be quaility time .

Its going backwards in Scotland and Wales.

It warrants further investigation.

I personally don't feel entitled to a longer life but I want us as a nation to do our best.

Just as in my family I want us to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. I'm not for writing anyone off!

Life expectancy is strongly related to infant mortality. Lower infant mortality = higher life expectancy.
Infant mortality in the UK is 70% higher than in Singapore.
So life expectancy peaking is a very bad thing when there's so much more to be done to reduce infant mortality that is clearly not being done.

I don't want to live to 90!!. If we had the medicine, money and lifestyle to stay healthy (mind and body) until 90+ then I'd be all for it.

Most very old people seem to suffer a steady deterioration in quality of life for the final few years, usually with either the mind or body crumbling faster than the other, ending up bedridden or reliant on round the clock care for extended periods of time before something finally gives up.. fuck that.

I truly hope assisted dying is sorted out in my lifetime. I'd sign the papers tomorrow to say in the event of X,Y,Z I want to be let go.

Life expectancy doesn't mean how long you personally expect to live for in an idealistic way. It's the average age people live to.

If it has stalled it means healthcare, nutrition and education about these is not effective. It means lifestyle choices are poor. In theory as one if the most developed countries on the world we should not have a stalling life expectancy. We would expect as a country the averages to rise steadily.

Libertarian - that may be your experience, but I've lost an 89 yr old friend who certainly wasn't ready to go. She had arthritis and a blood condition which required regular transfusions but very much enjoyed her life. She was pin-sharp, in full command of her financial affairs and household admin, and v good company. We miss her very much.

I think the length of disability at the end of life is more of a concern to me than the overall lifespan. Although I’d like a good few decades yet.

."The problem of increasing deaths is mainly in older people and we are concerned that this has coincided with severe cuts to social care."

edition.cnn.com/2018/09/25/health/uk-life-expectancy-stalls-intl/index.html

We know that the drop in life expectancy, increased deaths/disability and the infant mortality rising, is because of the cuts.

We have, for the first time ever, younger 'healthier' people dying whilst waiting for ambulances and hospital beds.

We know that Obesity and other conditions is linked to poverty. The Benefit changes are putting large numbers of people into poverty.

Why do you think that it is a good thing?

We need to concentrate on quality of life. Keeping people alive just for the sake of it is wrong. I would rather live for a shorter period but of higher quality that to get to 100 in a oap warehouse.

So much Health information has been gathered for so long the numbers can be manipulated to mean all kinds of things from more infant deaths due to less vaccinations, earlier deaths due to the lack of primary care providers, to less people living past 110.

YANBU, I always wonder why living longer and longer is pedalled as a good thing. I don't ever want to be 95, unless I'm in exceptionally good health.

I strongly believe it’s linked firmly with nutrition. We just are not given all the facts in this country and it’s disgraceful.

Junkmail do you mean nutrition of elderly people specifically?

It’s not about old people, as pp explained it’s young(er) people dying that pulls down the average. I have 90+ granny but my df, Fil and various other relatives dies between 50-65. I think we can agree that’s young, more so when it was cancer that wasn’t caught early enough.

When life expectancy is mentioned, we naturally think about the people who live longest.

I am not surprised that it is levelling off. We must be seeing effects from obesity, alcoholism, drugs, mental health etc etc. These cut down much younger people.

Would you still think that if it were your family/friends dying young?

My very anecdotal experience is of quite hale and hearty older people going into hospital with a relatively small issue and going downhill v fast.

Also post operative patients having had elective surgery being discharged quickly but crucially the at home follow up not there: so there is a district nurse coming in but they seem unable to do anything. Gps are hard to get to come out. I can see why going to A and E ends up seeming a reasonable option!

I am not an advocate of extending life at any cost but I do see expensive complex surgery being undone by not having the non glamorous basics in place.