to think that if you are selling menstrual pads & think that the word is 'woman' is offensive then you deserve to go out of business

[TurfClub]

Horrific evil people

twitter.com/Lunapads/status/1043289170851127297

The terminology is clearly confusing some people.

Trans men are biological females who identify as men.

Trans women are biological males who identify as women.

Trans women will never menstruate, no matter what hormones they take and how much surgery they have. Some of them have convinced themselves that they are having menstrual symptoms - the blood missing is just a 'small aspect' . Can't be a period though, anatomically.

Trans men will have periods if they still have a womb and normal female hormones and if they're pre-menopausal and normal weight (and not pregnant). I've no idea how many trans men that would apply to, but a fair few, given that some trans men go on to have babies. (I find this baffling as I'd have said that is the most female thing any woman can do, but there we are.)

Trans men get periods?

While it varies widely, it commonly takes several months on testosterone to stop menstruation and not all trans men take T. It's usually years on T before a hysterectomy would be a recommended option. I personally don't know any who would be 'offended' by the content though I know some who would avoid the content when their dysphoria is really bad.

I've seen content warnings for food, alcohol or drunkenness or drugs, diets, medical procedures, certain animals like spiders or snakes, mentions or images of blood or vomiting...while I agree it's a bit weird coming from a company selling menstruation products and I strongly disagree with menstruators and 'people with X' thing and don't think it really helps anyone but those that want to appear progressive, content warnings aren't about something being offensive and the concept of triggered - which has been entirely fucked up in popular culture - is not meant to be a value judgement though it certainly has become that way and I know there is a lot that has been said and written about the issues with content warnings as they are now used. It's meant to be about knowing your audience and letting them decide if they want to read something. If your audience has a significant number of people with dysphoria, that sort of content warning makes sense.

I once went into a panic attack and sobbing mess by hearing someone else be asked what they as a child had wanted to be when they grew up. There is obviously nothing offensive about that question, that didn't stop me being triggered because being triggered has absolutely nothing to do with being offended. Yeah, my feelings are fragile at times and I fully admit it, but I can't really think of another term for those who think that writing a content warning makes a person a horrific evil.

Tiger, there's a transman whose currently sueing the fuck out of the government to be identified as the father, and not the mother, of the baby that, er, he gave birth to.

Because you can be pregnant for nine months and give birth, but it's really fucking offensive to be referred to as a 'mother'.

As for why the language matters - there are all sorts of ways in which women are disadvantaged in our society. They all go back to our biology. If we have to keep talking about menstruators, chestfeeders, pregnant people, menopausal people, it dilutes things, surely. Far better to have one word so it's obvious that we are discriminated against because we are women. How can you discuss and tackle sexism if we're not pointing out all the problems that affect one of the two sexes?

Yes, TurfClub, I saw that. Stop the world I want to get off moment for me.

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap

Thank you for that post. I don’t necessarily agree (I’d have to give it more thought) but it’s reasoned. I don’t know if there’s a language framework that could address both your concerns and the feelings of some transmen, but I’d hope so.

What has got my back up (to the point where I’ve broken a personal rule about posting in mumsnet trans threads) is the throwing around of terms like ‘evil’. The only trans people I know are transmen and I know at least one of them really hates being misgendered on a personal level. If they were upset by the interchangeable use of ‘women’ with ‘person who menstruates’ I wouldn’t think that ‘evil’ of them, even if I was ultimately persuaded that the exclusive use of the word ‘women’ is necessary. Nor would I think that someone giving them a Cotent Warning is evil.

(The opening para was referring to your ‘why language matters’ post; the latter para wasn’t referring to you at all)

Some of them have convinced themselves that they are having menstrual symptoms - the blood missing is just a 'small aspect' hmm.

Ah yes. Like this:

Should’ve added, it’s utter bollocks, obvs. Entirely in theyir heads.

Theyve missed out significant groups there. Surely they should also include a warning for menopausal women or women who have had to undergo hysterectomies. It might upset them too
Thanks Catquest1 for your concern. As a menopausal 'person' I appreciate your kind thoughtfulness, but having spent years rolling around in pain, scrubbing sheets in the morning and paying for the privilege I feel no pang of jealousy. Please carry on as you were.

Sorry last message was meant to have quotation marks round the first bit from Catquest1. Bit new to all this.

Splurge, I think the OP has clarified that evil was meant to refer to the people who have decided that the word woman is so disturbing that it needs a content warning.

The company isn't alone there. Last night a billboard company removed posters in Liverpool which just showed the dictionary definition of woman. This was in response to intense lobbying from trans activists, led by the least busy doctor in the UK, Dr Adrian Harrop.

Splurge, I think the OP has clarified that evil was meant to refer to the people who have decided that the word woman is so disturbing that it needs a content warning.
Which, in context, I presume to be some transmen and/or people who are sensitive to the feelings of those transmen.

Surely the CW warning is intended to pacify trans women (who get "triggered" and upset because they are "exactly the same as women" but can't bleed once a month), rather than trans men who may not like to be reminded that they are biological women once a month (tho surely they can take something like the contraceptive pills/implants that stop you having periods, like lots of women do?)

All this triggering. Biological reality. Deal with it.

calpop

No I don’t think so. For one I imagine LunaPads’ readership comprises people who menstruate. Other articles they’ve tweeted refer to ‘menstruators’, to be inclusive of transmen and, from a quick google, often articles using that term appear to be aimed specifically at transmen.

total BS. I hope it negatively impacts their sales.

YANBU OP

And I will forever think of CW as ‘cockwomble’

It's Canada, basically. The country that is so fucking woke that it gets up before it even goes to bed at night.

Unfortunately, they are at the cutting edge of bollocks so I suppose we will start getting this stuff over in the UK as well before long.

What on earth is the point, even, of putting "CW" on something like this? Even if you accept the ludicrous idea that someone is actually going to have a sort of mental health crisis/panic attack from seeing the word "woman," well, OK, so what is the "CW" supposed to do? The letters are positioned RIGHT ABOVE the supposedly triggering content, so how could you use the "CW" as any kind of strategy for avoiding looking at the content in question?

content warnings aren't about something being offensive and the concept of triggered - which has been entirely fucked up in popular culture - is not meant to be a value judgement though it certainly has become that way and I know there is a lot that has been said and written about the issues with content warnings as they are now used. It's meant to be about knowing your audience and letting them decide if they want to read something. If your audience has a significant number of people with dysphoria, that sort of content warning makes sense.

No it doesn't, because the content is right underneath the supposed "warning" and there is no way they can avoid looking at it once they've read the stupid "warning."

Incidentally, I'm hoping to start using reusable products for my WOMANLY excretions once I start my WOMANLY periods again (I am currently engaging in the WOMANLY art of breastfeeding instead).

Are there any reusable product companies that have not bought into this stupid crap so that I can choose to purchase those ones instead, or am I going to have to resort to making my own menstrual cup out of a sink plunger or something?

Try this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374345-Period-pants-marketed-to-SHOCK-HORROR-women-and-girls

Thanks. :) Not asking for companies to get "involved" in this issue particularly, just that they use normal language like "woman" when it would be obvious to do so.

Ffs. Don't really know whether to laugh or cry! It's so ridiculous to put a content warning because of the word "woman" that I really find it hard to believe it's actually true. I thought these companies were trying to break down taboos around menstruation - seems they are just busy constructing other taboos about referring to biological sex. I have a couple of pair of their period pants and was going to get a few more, but think I go with ModiBodi instead now until they cave too.

Please leave a review where it will hopefully count: www.amazon.com/Lunapads-Performa-Washable-Cloth-Purple/dp/B01N4VFFMJ?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I will never EVER buy a menstrual product from any company ashamed or frightened to say they are for WOMEN. for fucks Fucking sakes.

MEN DO NOT HAVE PERIODS. Even men who are now supposedly women.

ARGGHHHH