to feel that DH's work should not expect him to get a passport?

I wish you luck OP if you ever move or need to open a new bank account, we had to produce our passports for estate agent, solicitors, and bank when we opened a new account to enable us to move the money around. My friend because her husband was terminally ill allowed her passport to lapse for a few years. You have no idea how hard it is to start from scratch. Just saying......

Thebewilderbeest Tue 25-Sep-18 11:20:45
Just to clarify:

I'm not suggesting that the school should pay for his passport.

He didn't volunteer for the trip, the assistant head asked him and his response was 'I would go, but don't have a passport'

My question is should he be made to feel like he should get a passport.
................

No he shouldn't be made to feel like that but who is pressurising him being as he has said, "No"?

He gave the reason for not going as not having a passport, the school might well give him the money for one and then what will he do. It would have been better - if he really didn't want to go - for him to have just said he couldn't do it.

Could be a pleasant trip for him, something different and not costing anything like a usual holiday. An experience. Judging from those I know who have accompanied school parties on holidays, he won't be tied to the pupils 24/7. They have fun (not my idea of fun, I'd hate it, but lots don't).

If it gets called off due to lack of volunteers then it gets called off. No one died as a result of not getting to go skiing with the school.

The school asked him to attend, your husband said no, citing a very reasonable explanation (no passport). No excuses necessary, the school should back off and accept his answer. You are definitely not BU

Can you really say you will definitely not go abroad for the next 10 years? How do you know?

But even if they do, what on earth is the sense in having to struggle to find the money now to pay upfront for something that he may use in 9 years' time? It's not like it's now or never to get one. If he then wanted to go abroad a second time, two years later, that would be the same cost again for a new one when, had he bought it in 8 and a half years' time from now, it would all have been covered by the same one.

Also, don't forget it will be the same cost again assuming he would be going with his DW, who would need her own - and then any children they have/might have add extra cost again.

People saying to buy one anyway as it's handy to have for ID are either seriously well off or are only thinking from the point of view that they already have one that they use regularly for holidays and ALSO find it handy for ID purposes. If it's that crucial, you can get a provisional driving licence for £34 (assuming you don't have any non-qualifying health issues), which also lasts for 10 years, even if you never intend to sit behind a steering wheel for your whole life.

Besides, they may well not go abroad again at all. Plenty of us don't go abroad. We haven't for 20 years. It isn't about fear/hatred of foreigners or the unknown etc. - in our case, there are so many beautiful parts of our own country which we'll never get chance to visit of them as often as we'd like (or indeed at all, ever), that we prefer to have our holidays in the UK. We're not bothered about hot sun (fair skin that burns easily) and my health conditions mean that insurance would be prohibitively expensive and would probably not pay out anyway as just about anything could be argued to considered to be connected to existing problems. Also, flying seems to be such a faff nowadays and we like to pack up our own car and take as much stuff (within reason!) as we like.

Given the low pay TA's get and I know they generally get leaned on, I think the school should pay.

of them - not sure how these unnecessary two words crept in!

However you cannot get out of the UK without a passport, and the UK don't issue ID cards.

You can travel to & from the IoM. without a passport as the IoM isn't a part of the UK.

Simple, don't buy one..he won't be able to go without a passport.

Even if the school DOES offer to buy him a passport, I'd be very inclined to decline anyway. Word will get out and there will be a lot of backbiting rumours and nasty comments from people who will make complaints about the 'CF' who took advantage of a hard-up the school to bag himself a freebie.

No matter how much he explains that he neither needs nor wants one for his own use and won't use it personally again - and that he's only going there to help out (giving up his own free time with his family too) and, as a supervising adult, won't likely have a load of carefree fun like the kids will.

People who think like that (and they are many, sadly) aren't troubled by facts. For proof of that, you only have to look at the other thread talking about the experiences of people with severe disabilities being shouted at by people lucky enough to be perfectly healthy and able-bodied apart from their personalities who are incensed about their 'free' car' (which they also have to pay a lot towards anyway).

I'm not suggesting that the school should pay for his passport.

I think you absolutely SHOULD suggest they pay for it actually.

If I were you I'd get H to note down all the trips he HAS volunteered for and the costs incurred on each of them

Then note down the costs of the ski trip - including ski gear/clothing etc and put it to them that as a TA, there is no chance you can afford to subsidise this and that while he probably would like to go, he can't afford to.

It's ok to say you can't afford it, it's ok to prioritise other things, but there is no point at all in putting yourselves in hardship for something the school wants you to pay for. If they are desperate, they will pay.

I'm not that suprised that the person planning the trip assumed that the usual volunteers would probably have passports. For many people it's just one of those things you have to pay for as part of adult life, in the same way your DH pays for ties and shoes that he only uses for work.

I'd also imagine that the pressuring is because he doesn't realise it's a lot to pay, and thinks your DH is just being a bit funny about it for some reason. DH needs to swallow his pride, if that's what's held him back from communicating effectively, and explain properly. And maybe consider whether he needs to be more assertive, as dithering can lead to people repeatedly asking you the same thing.

It sounds unlikely that the school would have arranged this without having staffing in place?

Sorry meant to say donyou think they just assumed that he had a passport?

IME schools running ski trips have factored in costs of clothing and equipment hire when setting the cost to students, including costs for providing equipment to the staff as the trip couldn't run without them. It's certainly not reasonable to expect him to buy a load of suitable winter clothing, and I'd argue that if the school needs him to go then they need to meet him part way with passport costs.

TAs going on residentials get a worse deal than teachers, as even though neither are paid extra for the extra work, the TAs' pay is much lower to begin with, and they work much longer hours than they're paid. I thought there was now an obligation for headteachers to offer TOIL when TAs work extra on residentials- is he in a union to ask?

While I don’t think YABU think if it was me I’d have just paid for a new passport. They are sort of useful for other things than going abroad. Plus you can go abroad with one of you want to see other part of the world rather than the small island we live on.

And to a PP who said that he won't lose his job over this- he won't , but everyone who works in state-funded schools knows that all our jobs are always at risk because of deep funding cuts. When all the TAs in schools have to reapply for their own jobs in redundancy rounds, which happens with increasing frequency nowadays, it's useful to have that experience and skill on your CV. Nobody in education is expected to just do their job, everyone is expected to go above and beyond to cover the gaps- it isn't right, but it's what people do to ensure the children don't miss out. But giving up your time unpaid is one thing, being expected to pay to volunteer to work for nothing is really beyond the realms of reason.

CF' who took advantage of a hard-up the school to bag himself a freebie


Well ANYONE could have volunteered... and EVERY school trip covers the cost of teachers to accompany the students. The school has no volunteers, the one who DOES volunteer regularly would like to go, but doesn't have a passport and doesn't have the money to be able to get it and kit himself out for something he won't be doing regularly.

SOD the gossips, they are free to put their own time and money on the line if they are so inclined.

the school is unlikely to be hard up, otherwise they would not have run the trip in the first place...

Bless you for that post Thebewilderbeast.

@Omzlas

Passport-free travel is only between countries in the Schengen area. UK opted out of the Schengen agreement.

While I don’t think YABU think if it was me I’d have just paid for a new passport. They are sort of useful for other things than going abroad.

Have you totally misunderstood the OP and the OP's updates - or did you just read the title? She categorically DIDN'T say "We have plenty of money available for one but I'd rather not have to pay it". Yes, passports can be very useful things - both for travelling and domestic ID purposes - and, if they were free or 'send an SAE', then I'd fully agree with you that it's better to have one than not. However, they aren't quite as useful as food, heating and meeting household bills and daily necessities.

I've always thought I'd like a six-bedroom detached house in its own grounds as it would be sort of useful having all that space and privacy. With that in mind, I wonder why I haven't just gone ahead and bought one....

Anyway, how old are the kids in the school and what range of special needs do they have? Will they all automatically have passports too - and be able to get affordable insurance, if a lot of them have pre-existing conditions that would ramp up the price? Or will there be an element of privilege there too as to who is able to go and who is essentially excluded?

If the organisers have set their hearts on skiing, wouldn't it be easier to leave early in the morning and hire a coach/minibus (with two drivers if necessary) and take them up to Aviemore?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll Tue 25-Sep-18 15:21:27
While I don’t think YABU think if it was me I’d have just paid for a new passport. They are sort of useful for other things than going abroad.

Have you totally misunderstood the OP and the OP's updates - or did you just read the title? She categorically DIDN'T say "We have plenty of money available for one but I'd rather not have to pay it". Yes, passports can be very useful things - both for travelling and domestic ID purposes - and, if they were free or 'send an SAE', then I'd fully agree with you that it's better to have one than not. However, they aren't quite as useful as food, heating and meeting household bills and daily necessities.

I've always thought I'd like a six-bedroom detached house in its own grounds as it would be sort of useful having all that space and privacy. With that in mind, I wonder why I haven't just gone ahead and bought one....

Oh come on, that really isn't fair. You can't compare the cost of a passport to a house.

£75 (cost of passport) works out at £6.25 a month, not a big expense if you think of that way but of course it's a fair amount to pay all at once - but is worth having. I don't use mine to go abroad any more but even recently have been asked for it to confirm identity. That crops up occasionally.

Also it's not so easy to find someone to sign the form with your photo as it used to be. In the past you could ask your doctor, go to the bank or a minister of religion if they know you. Doctors and banks won't do it now. The op's husband works in a school and the headteacher could do it.

However he has told the school he can't go because of no passport so let's wait and see what happens. The op, too, is seeing the situation with a different perspective.

Oh come on, that really isn't fair. You can't compare the cost of a passport to a house.

No, of course I wasn't comparing the value - just hyperbolically pointing out the principle of somebody suggesting that, if something might be handy to have, why ever would you not just buy one. A bit 'Let them eat cake', I think.

You chose to get one primarily for ID purposes, and that was absolutely your choice to make - all well and good, but you don't legally have to do that and shouldn't feel pressured to do so.

Some people choose not to buy TV licences and happily live their lives in a way that doesn't legally require one (I'm obviously not including the cheats who DO legally need one). They, too, are very much in the minority and get regularly hassled by the disbelieving TV Licensing people for not having one. It's 'only' about £15 a month, so why don't they just get one and avoid all the hassle?

Nobody should feel forced or pressured to buy something that they don't legally have to have and don't actually need in order to live their private lives - even if other people DO believe the cost to not be very much according to their own personal financial circumstances and assume that this is the same for everybody. In fact, even if something is free, if you don't want it and won't use it at all, why should you feel cajoled into getting one?

The OP and her DH are now considering whether he would like to go on the trip and therefore might choose to buy a passport, if they can afford it somehow, but this is still 100% his/their choice and nobody else's.