Primary school toilets look like this

[SwordToFlamethrower]

My daughter is 9. God forbid she is one of the girls who start their period young. Not sure how girls age 9 to 11 at primary school are meant to manage their first ever periods with no privacy or dignity when they have to wash their blood soaked hands. The toilet area is open plan too, so anyone walking by can see right in. I took these photos on my way to a "meet the teacher" meeting today. I don't know if the school have checked the law on single sex toilets when they implemented this. I don't even know where to begin. I've been asked to leave it because it's not worth having a row with the school, seeing as they're underfunded as it is. AIBU to say "tough!" What should I do?

At my DC's old primary they'd get changed for PE by stripping down to their underwear in front of each other and no one ever seemed bothered about that. Even in year 5 and 6? All schools I have worked in have separately changed from year 4 or 5 upwards. Because its recognised that as children become older and more aware of their bodies, they value privacy from the opposite sex who have different bodies to them when getting changed.. And every school I’ve worked in hasn’t had separate changing. There simply isn’t the room!

I remember when I started my period. It was at school. Totally unexpected so I had absolutely nothing with me and had to make do with tissue paper, I was in there for ages trying to wipe off the excess and padding with the loo roll. If all that had happened and there had been boys in the loo next to me it would have made the whole experience even more horrid tbh.

Those toilets meet the requirements of the screenshot document in the OP - ISS Regulation 23A (1) b). They are individual cubicles, so in 'rooms' designed to be used by one pupil at a time, and that are lockable from the inside. They are floor to ceiling, so definitely more 'room'-like than cubicles within an assigned-sex bathroom. It's the sinks that are communal, and honestly I haven't been in a school in the last 16 years where the sinks haven't been communal (even when the toilets were in single-sex bathrooms). Girls who have started their periods have always been allowed to use staff toilets, and generally those girls don't have to 'announce' they have their period, the school is told (probably by parents, to let them know what is going on with their daughter) and that girl can use staff toilets at all times, period or not - it's never made an issue of. Apologies for the lack of paragraphs, MN is not letting me use the return key this evening.

Not talking about women here. I'm talking about primary age girls who have their menarche while at school. Where is the provision and privacy for them in this space? Have a look at the pictures and tell me if you were 9, would you feel totally at ease, bleeding for the first time. You need a wee so you go to the toilet and instead of seeing wee, you find blood on the paper and your hand. There are boys outside your stall and you can't call for help. What do you do? I'd probably cry and feel traumatised and helpless. Put yourself in the size 2 shoes of these little girls for a moment please.

They don't need to have sex segregated washing facilities. They need to have sex segregated toilet facilities. Which these are. Cubicles with doors that lock. I'm not getting the hysteria over the lack of sex segregated hand washing.

Well obviously if you’re not prepared then you risk getting in a mess. The same as if you didn’t have any pads. With periods you kind of need to be prepared really.

The only problems affecting students aren't periods. Many girls refuse to use school toilets during the day because of bullying or other anti social behaviour going on. Because they won't go to the toilet they won't drink and then end up with utis or kidney infections. These open plan toilets are designed to try to eradicate some of these problems. Other options tried by schools was locking the toilets during lesson times - to cut down on students hiding in them, vandalising them etc. That was unpopular too for obvious reasons.

Yes the primary schools I've been in the ks2 toilets are used as changing rooms. Does the school have changing rooms?

And every school I’ve worked in hasn’t had separate changing. There simply isn’t the room!. But you agree that separate changing would be a better situation in an ideal world where there is the room? Any two form entry school with 2 classrooms per year group can have separate changing, even if they don't have designated changing spaces.

And how is a 9 year old supoosed to do that?

The point is the school has chosen to have the sinks outside the cubicle. Why would they did this and not have them inside the stall. Makes no difference to them but I’m sure makes a difference to the kids using them. I'd make the teachers use them and see how they feel!

I cant attatch screenshots but Regulation 4 of the school reagulations 2012 (England) specifically states seperate washing facilities are essential for boys and girls over the age of 8.

Are some of you really saying that it's appropriate for young girls to share a bathroom with boys, They aren't sharing a bathroom with boys. They have a range of single cubicle bathroom facilities which open to an open plan sink area. No girl is using a toilet with the boys. No boys are using the toilet with the girls. Whilst my personal preference would be individual cubicles like my university library (and they were unisex too shock horror with separate sex spaces available), for schools an open sink area makes a lot of sense. Personally I hated going to the loo at break/lunch because it was essentially a common room for bitchy girls.. With open wash areas there's no groups huddling in there and the toilets become a place to use the bathroom and that's it.

And personally I hate the floor to ceiling doors for kids. If someone pushed you in there to abuse you no one would see you. If the lock jams you cant get out and no one can pass you loo role or pads under the door.

The point is the school has chosen to have the sinks outside the cubicle. Why would they did this and not have them inside the stall. How many toilet cubicles have room for actual sinks inside them?

Yes, at 9 I’d have felt much happier in one of those toilets with floor to ceiling walls and doors. The cubicles are private and more soundproof than traditional cubicles where other children could (and did) look underneath or over the top by standing on the next toilet.

My primary school toilets were like the one in the image attached. I totally understand the need for more privacy in pre- and early puberty, I still have recurring nightmares about having a very heavy flow and in full view of public. Everyone has their own personal / public boundary, for adolescent girls I'd guess it is better to err towards the "personal" side.

FFS. There are multiple women here who actually experience this telling you that it would be noticeable, despite wiping with tissue. It’s a thin layer, your skin is warm, the blood dries very quickly. Why can you not listen and accept what people with actual experience are telling you. I always have a couple of sanitary towels in my bag but I don’t always have wet wipes - they dry out once the pack is opened, so if your cycles are unpredictable it’s much more of a challenge to have usable wipes than it is to have a sealed towel to hand. I’m stunned by some of the comments about girls in that situation needing medical attention - of course they bloody do! Do you think they get it? Do you think their symptoms are investigated, treated and resolved in a timely fashion? If so, you know fuck all about the state of women’s healthcare in this country, and that goes double for young and teenage girls. When my periods started, they lasted 20 days out of every 35 days - I didn’t even get the pill for two years! And that says nothing of the humiliation of the effects of having scar tissue twisting and gluing your bowels together. My god, some people have no idea. I am so grateful I was at a girls school when all this started for me.

So do those cubicles just open out into a corridor? So if you had an upset tummy or something and was making a lot of noise in the loo, anyone walking past would just be able to hear? I can't picture it?

We’ve heard on many threads on MN about gross people who mention the smell of scented sanitary pads. They’re the same boys and girls who carry on and tease people when they hear the sound of a pad being opened and stuck down - then the teasing of “x has her period!!” Begins. These girls definitely need privacy, but sound privacy as well. I don’t agree with unisex toilets for children in primary school.

Elephantinacravatthey open to a shared sink area which is accessed off the corridor (I think). The cubicles in those toilets will be a lot more soundproof than the traditional toilets of cubicles with non floor to ceiling doors.

Girls who have started their periods have always been allowed to use staff toilets, and generally those girls don't have to 'announce' they have their period, the school is told (probably by parents, to let them know what is going on with their daughter) and that girl can use staff toilets at all times, period or not - it's never made an issue of. but that’s ludicrous. Why should any girls who’ve started menstruating have to use the staff toilets rather than, oh I don’t know, the girls toilets?! Toilets are single sex for a reason. Several reasons, actually. Why do away with them and then when girls need them for the reasons they are supposed to exist, send them to some other facility done properly? It’s insane.

How many toilet cubicles have room for actual sinks inside them? Loads of places have totally enclosed toilets with a sink in them, opening out into a corridor.

Are those toilets for the older end of the school though? In our primary schools there are usually unisex toilets up until the primary 4 or 5 section which then splits into male and female toilet blocks.