To have concerns about counselling

[navymack]

This isn’t about individuals who I am sure mean well and genuinely want to help. But AIBU to worry that some of the treatments offered, at great personal expenditure, are ineffective or even counter productive in some cases?

The costs are really concerning to me - it seems that a lot of money goes into this with universities offering degrees in counselling and individuals charging anything between £30 and £70 per hour.

I have seen over the years people raise concerns about inappropriate things counsellors say to them, and the fact that it isn’t recommended for those in abusive relationships makes me wonder if in fact it is the solve-all it is often presented as being?

I know that individuals will state counselling was helpful to them, but what specifically is so helpful? Is it just having time and impartiality?

I honestly have no idea what you’re on about. Are you thinking of having counselling, or just starting a crusade on behalf of all those poor people you think are being duped into paying all that money? (In which case, shove off!)

Regarding counselling in abusive relationships, it would be couples counselling which isn’t appropriate. For the victim of the abuse, individual counselling is actually very helpful.

As with anything, there are good and bad counsellors. There are good and bad doctors too. Good and bad retail assistants. You can’t tar them all with the same brush....

The relationship between the two parties is important too - if it doesn’t work, you find another therapist.

Costs wise, go and find out how much you’d spend on a massage, or a private physio appointment or private doctors appointment, and then see how the costs compare. There’s such a lot of money goes into those professions too with all the degrees being offered in them!

I share your concerns. It should be far better regulated and the training more rigorous. Some are excellent, others are not, and practices often dubious. It provides a perfect situation for exploitation as clients are never sure what to expect.

Well I wouldn’t phrase it as per your first paragraph, but I do think a lot of money is charged and therefore it is reasonable to question the effectiveness of the treatment so I won’t ‘shove off’, thanks all the same.

The rest of your post is precisely my point. Yes, I am sure there are good and bad counsellors, but how does anyone, least of all someone who may be emotionally vulnerable, know what entails a ‘good’ counsellor? If it doesn’t work ‘find another therapist’ so in other words, keep spending money.

I’m questioning it.

Yes, there would be a comparable spend on private physio or similar. But this is measurable and specific.

No well-trained and ethically scrupulous counsellor or therapist would ever present it as a 'solve-all'. So quite simply, choose on that basis.

But they do, onalong

If you look at any counsellors webpage, they will state they can help with anything ranging from financial difficulties to sexual libido to addiction to low self esteem.

I have seen over the years people raise concerns about inappropriate things counsellors say to them

Oh my god human makes mistake, hold the press. I don't think you're actually interested at all in how or why people found counselling helpful. God knows what your agenda is though.

Then have counselling with an organisation if you can’t easily afford the private fees. I’ve had free counselling from cruse, my organisation’s workplace benefits, the NHS. Anyone in England can find their local IAPT online and self refer. There’s a waiting list like for most treatments.

A private counsellor is usually less regulated so I’d say higher chance of being poorer quality. And anyone who has any issue with the quality of their counselling should absolutely speak to the counsellor about it or their supervisor.

I’m glad it’s a regulated profession! Would you really want untrained well meaning people to be doing such a difficult job?

If you want to find a quality private counsellor (anyone can use the title legally) check the register for their profession (I believe it’s BABCP, there’s a site called counselling directory), it’s a list of counsellors who have pursued and passed a very rigorous difficult course of study to become a counsellor and have ongoing training.

I’ve had good and bad counsellors, like any profession. Given that the actual sessions are one on one, it’s difficult to control what occurs in the room if it’s a bad counsellor. Sometimes they’re not bad, just not a match for the client.

I have had counselling. What helped me was having another person encourage me to look at things in a different way. Challenge me to change my thinking. Give me space to get it all out. Also taught me strategies for dealing with my way of thinking...anxiety..creating a catasrophy in my mind. Made me take that time every week to focus on stuff and not just blunder on making the same decisions again and again. Encouraged me to journal which helped. Built my self esteem by encouraging me not to be so hard on myself. I got angry as he challenged me but that was good as it forced me to face things. Brought healing into areas of my childhood ll hadn't dealt with or even realised were significant. I could go on!
But l do appreciate that some are not good so finding the right fit is important.
Also here in lreland we pay a doctor 60 euro for 5 mins of their time when you often feel rushed and not listened to. At least paying a counsellor 60 euro guaranteed you one hour.
I think you also have to be committed as its hard work and annoying at times persisting with it is not easy.

I don’t have an agenda. I am interested, pure and simple.

It’s telling how aggressive some of the responses are. How very dare someone question this.

Can help. I.E. it is possible and they have experience with certain issues. Not - this is guaranteed to work and I am the therapist for you. After the website comes the process of seeing someone and THEN deciding if they can specifically help you. You're being far too reductionist. Therapy isn't aspirin, you know. People's minds and psyches are extremely complex.

That doesn’t mean counselling will solve all of someone’s problems. It’s just a list of issues a counsellor is willing to work with.

Have you had a bad experience with a counsellor?

I think the thing to do when choosing a counsellor is check out their qualifications and which bodies they're registered with.

I've seen two. One was great the other completely crap. They do seem to have their specialisms and if they can tap into that will try.

My dp is currently seeing one for cbt and counselling. She is worth her weight in gold. He has a complex history one he would have thought had no baring on the person he is today but slowly she is unravelling it all and i can see him becoming a better person because of it. It's really amazing.

Lolly - I’m not talking about me, I couldn’t be less interested in having it to be honest.

What does concern me is that if someone is in a state of distress or confusion counselling is recommended. Yes, it can be accessed through an organisation, but you know as well as I do that with cuts that just isn’t always possible and in any event, someone is paying for it even if it isn’t the individual.

There’s a lot of money being generated through counselling. If that’s all to the good, great. But I get concerned when when someone says it just isn’t helping that isn’t accepted - it is ‘find another counsellor, work harder.’

I’m glad it helped you, june

but how does anyone, least of all someone who may be emotionally vulnerable, know what entails a ‘good’ counsellor? If it doesn’t work ‘find another therapist’ so in other words, keep spending money.

People should definitely be educated on what counselling is or isn’t so they can manage their own expectations. Which is part of being more open about mental health and psychological services definitely. Remove the mystery. Empower people as clients.

Most clients are well aware when their counsellor isn’t good for them (they may be good for the next person! Or yes there are bad apples like in any job), they will feel like something is wrong, not gel, dread the sessions.

And the best thing to do if it can’t be resolved is try someone new of course. Are you suggesting the next counsellor should work for free because their client has had a bad past experience?

Highly trained professionals require payment to do their job and offer their services. They have rents and bills to pay. You seem to have an issue with the fact it costs money for private counselling? When there are other possibilities to access it?

I don’t think people are being aggressive.
I think you’re being a bit absurd in your OP though, so that’s probably what people are reacting to.

Surely you get more and less skilled and experienced people in every profession? Teaching, Hairdressing, Osteopathy, Counselling.

What has led you to start this thread?

But I get concerned when when someone says it just isn’t helping that isn’t accepted - it is ‘find another counsellor, work harder.

I mean, I agree here. People need to be empowered to realise when counselling just isn’t for them so they’re not throwing money down the drain or getting increasingly disillusioned feeling like they’re beyond help. Counselling isn’t for everyone. And I do see people use it regularly as the default suggestion in any situation. It’s a very specific process, if you’re paying for it or spending time on getting it for free you really ought to be informed that it isn’t just having an ear to vent to for an hour, unless that’s explicitly all you want from it. I think people sometimes say ‘get counselling’ if they don’t know what else to say, and maybe if they don’t understand it themselves or they’re evangelical cos it worked for them!

I found it helpful. I do admit, though, that talking to one particular friend was almost as good and free of charge. However, in general I don't have access to a neutral friend who will just listen to me for ages. They usually have their own things to say and they're part of your life so can't be an impartial listener.

For me:
They are a safe none judgemental space
They help with techniques to overcome some of the issues. So mine has quoted and recommended a number of different books, specific techniques, blogs/podcasts etc as and when she feels appropriate.
She challenges my thinking, sometimes in a very very gentle way if I'm having a very bad time, other times more robustly to get me to really process what I'm thinking/voicing. But she can do this as she knows me and knows whether I'm frustrated I can't get through something, or if I feel I'm hanging onto my sanity by a thread.
I know there are some awful ones out there. Mines a gem.
When life is great I see her once every couple of months. When I've hit an issue and am struggling I can go once a week. There is no pressure from her. It's all on me to decide.

Why it is absurd to point out counselling isn’t effective for every type of emotional problem and claiming it is generates a lot of money?

Lolly people are being pretty aggressive, as it happens.

It's the same as any service. Even the nhs. Some people are good at their jobs. Some people are not.

Some people are great are their job, but won't gel with everyone. Or make a mistake or mis judgment.

Some people are shit and still choose to charge over the odds.

It's the person's responsibility to check out who they are going with and then decide for themselves.

I don’t have an issue with it costing money.

What I do have an issue with is the fact that it costs money without its effectiveness being monitored or tangible in amy real way.

There are financial considerations though. The cost of the building rent , heating, lighting, time to make notes, come up with plans/strategies before session. They don't juts rock up somewhere, say mmhm and leave. It's up to you in you believe the cost is worthwhile- but they are a professional. You pay a hairdresser about the same per hour.

I was about to go into a load of detail about choosing the right counsellor (I’m one) but then you said you’re not interested in it. I’m reading this like you’re just annoyed that they’re making a lot of money 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, SD, it’s not a criticism for counsellors for charging money.

However, what I am questioning is - is it effective? How do we know? Given that people said ‘well that didn’t work for me’ and it isn’t accepted - it is insisted what they need is a new counsellor or try harder. You can see it even here, people are edging towards the ‘do you need counselling, OP?’

As someone said up thread, I do sometimes wonder if it’s just having space and impartiality and time. All very well and good if so. If not, what?

It understand it helps some people. My concern is more to do with those who say it actually isn’t for them - there’s no attempt to find alternatives, it is just ‘find more, work harder.’

You’re not alone, OP. Plenty of professionals question the benefits of most talking therapies, including general counselling. Here’s one book I read a while ago on the subject:

www.amazon.co.uk/Therapys-Delusions-Unconscious-Exploitation-Walking/dp/0684835843/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=Therapy%E2%80%99s+delusions&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1537688394&sr=8-7

Depression is generally made worse by general counselling or psychotherapy (as opposed to targeted CBT), since it encourages the person to ruminate on their problems, which makes their depression worse. Personally the two worst episodes of depression I’ve ever had occurred when I was in long term therapy (in two different decades with two different therapists) and each only lifted when I stopped the therapy, took antidepressants for a while, and had CBT.

I think general counselling or psychotherapy can be actively dangerous and it is ineffective for many people; perhaps it benefits those who just have minor issues as it gives them a sympathetic ear (at great cost), but nobody’s ever shown it’s effective at long term change or at treating any actual condition (again, leaving out a few evidence based therapies like CBT).

I too worry when I see therapists, who might have only a 2-year diploma if that, advertising that they can help with serious illnesses like depression, eating disorders, personality disorders, and the like.