To have concerns about counselling

[navymack]

This isn’t about individuals who I am sure mean well and genuinely want to help. But AIBU to worry that some of the treatments offered, at great personal expenditure, are ineffective or even counter productive in some cases?

The costs are really concerning to me - it seems that a lot of money goes into this with universities offering degrees in counselling and individuals charging anything between £30 and £70 per hour.

I have seen over the years people raise concerns about inappropriate things counsellors say to them, and the fact that it isn’t recommended for those in abusive relationships makes me wonder if in fact it is the solve-all it is often presented as being?

I know that individuals will state counselling was helpful to them, but what specifically is so helpful? Is it just having time and impartiality?

If you’re a counsellor teddy and got that from this thread then that concerns me.

Of course a counsellor should charge money.

Let me put it another way. Someone invents a cure for migraines. It’s effective for migraines, but it costs.

It’s then suggested for every single head problem. Bump on the head, acne, common or garden headache.

The people who don’t have migraines say ‘This expensive treatment isn’t working for me: what else can you suggest?’

They are told, ‘you are wrong, it works, maybe you need to take the treatment at a different time of day or insert it into another orifice (!j or take more of it.’

No one says ‘actually this maybe just isn’t working because it’s the wrong treatment!’

Now, that’s a really bad example, I know. Migraines are a clear condition, mental health problems are far more complex. But for everyone who has been helped by counselling, someone else wasn’t. In a minority of cases, counselling makes it worse.

This doesn’t seem to be accepted.

Thank you, potplant

I would like to see more clarity around the types of counselling offered. Not just cbt vs ‘other’, but really clarifying what style a specific counsellor offers.

I have found counselllrs very vague on both sharing their particular style of counselling, and for some, their qualifications.

I find simply reflexive giving me space and repeating back exactly what I’ve just said pretty useless. I’m already good at doing this already by myself and get absolutely nothing from it. I also think it’s this type of counselling that very inexperienced people are drawn to and do badly, so it’s what gives counselling a bad name.

What I do find extremely useful is someone who will bring their own expertise and knowledge to bear to reframe and help challenge my thinking to move me on, and help me find insights. That is super helpful, and such a different experience from the first type.

Yes I agree OP I was referred from gp but paid for counselling. Looking back i’d Have better off with self help books. Chopra and tolle books. I was very vulnerable to the counsellor suggestion to not marry my now dh because of ‘his ethnicity’ now I can see she was a waste and very expensive! people are being fleeced ! Just my experience

If you haven't had counselling and don't want counselling then how can you possibly judge whether counselling is worth the money or not? And why do you care?

Of course there won't be a tangible, measurable outcome. It's not like fixing a broken leg.

What I do have an issue with is the fact that it costs money without its effectiveness being monitored or tangible in amy real way.

How do you measure that? Some excellent counsellors won't be for everyone. Some people won't like what their counsellors have to say, even if they are right.

How do you measure success. My mum had it and it made hee worse for a while. But long term it made her better. So when do you measure this? After a few weeks, a few months, years?

And it would be just the client self reporting. No facts.

Do you feel, hair dressers should be monitored and their costs reviewed. My exh pinned me down and shaved my head. My hair is now a big deal to me. I pay loads to have it looked after. Should a hair dresser be allowed to set their own price or are they taking advantage of me. Or have I looked around, chosen and hair dresser I am happy with and agreed to pay their prices?

I was referred for counselling by my GP several years ago as I was going through a very difficult stage in my life. Fortunately I didn't pay but I'm sure that the woman I saw was paid handsomely for sitting in a chair looking blankly at me whilst I tried to unravel my own thoughts.
In contrast, I accompanied a relative to see a Clinical psychologist at a hospital who was utterly amazing. We learnt so much in a short space of time.
So, in answer to your post OP, the profession has, no doubt, it's fair share of charlatans or people who in all honesty haven't a clue. The same as any other profession.
The defensive, aggressive posts you have received are an interesting read and say a lot.

If you have worries or upsetting memories that you have Not voiced to another person due to embarrassment or shame then it could be a good thing to open up about them and get a more balanced view by speaking to a counsellor.
If the counsellor laughs or says get a grip it might be a good idea to try another.

It isn’t like fixing a broken leg. Nonetheless, some measurable outcomes should be evident, I would think.

Please note I didn’t say I had never had counselling. I have, as it happens. I bear no bitterness to the individuals and this isn’t a personal attack on counsellors.

My concerns are about the industry generally and at the way counselling has been presented as a cure all. How often after a traumatic event are we told ‘counselling has been offered’ with the inference that this will be what helps.

I read an interview with Charlene Lunnon and Lisa Hoodless, who were kidnapped and raped aged ten in 1999. Both girls were forced to attend counselling after this and both found it very distressing. Lisa was allowed to stop after a period of time but Charlene wasn’t and she stated that this made her aggressive and angry towards Lisa.

I do think it was right the girls went to counselling but I do think when they said ‘this is not helpful for me, please do not make me go’ this should have been respected, but such was the trust in counselling that this didn’t happen.

Don’t they just white?

And then the wide eyed ‘WHAT aggressive posts?’

The difference is that a clinical psychologist will have a very high level of evidence-based training. They will have a doctorate in it and be very competent indeed.

Your average private counsellor who advertises that she or he can treat all sorts of severe mental illnesses, won’t. Not only are they unlikely to understand mental illness properly (it isn’t part of their training), the methods they will have been trained in are unlikely to be based on any sort of evidence that they actually work, in the sense of helping treat mental illness or just help people feel better (beyond the warm feeling we all get at being listened to sympathetically for an uninterrupted 50 minuets).

I too benefited greatly from seeing a clinical psychologist, who used evidence based treatments and was clearly focussed on helping me get well and on monitoring how it was all going, being prepared to adjust as necessary. I didn’t get anything like this from the two private therapists I used (both of whom were senior, experienced, supervised, and well thought of in the profession), who couldn’t seem to do much more than sit there and nod sympathetically as I talked myself further and further down into suicidal depression.

I saw a counsellor through the NHS initially and them privately for a few sessions. That was really helpful because I felt for the first time someone had acknowledged that the things that had happened to me in the past weren't normal and were damaging. I felt so much better that I didn't continue with the counselling despite advice that I should.

Some time later I felt I did need further help but my counsellor was too busy to take me on again and gave me the details of another counsellor. Because of where this new counsellor was based and the slots she had available she was the only option. She was awful in so many ways. She talked about herself all the time. She offered no strategies. She made me feel crap about myself. She was unprofessional and I had some serious concerns about her but I went for quite a long time because I thought I needed someone and there was no one else. I spent a lot of money seeing her. It was a mistake. I am still angry about it now, years later.

Some time later I saw a third counsellor for a short time. She was helpful around a specific issue and much more professional but I never felt the same as I had with the first counsellor.

What I would say is that counsellors are people. Some are shit. Some are great. Some do it because they have an interest in people. Some do it because it's a job and a way to make money.

I would strongly advise anyone who isn't happy with a counsellor to find someone that works for them.

That’s awful, navy.

One of the clearest bits of psychological research in recent years is that counselling immediately after a traumatic event like a terrorist attack or natural disaster (it used o be called critical incident debriefing) significantly INCREASES the likelihood that those affected will suffer from PTSD. It’s far better for people to be taken back into their communities and find their own coping strategies, and only if they are still feeling traumatised many months later is it worth considering targeted CBT. Counselling makes things much worse.

Unfortunately like all private ‘treatments’ the onus is on the client to become educated about what they’re searching for.

Counselling and psychotherapy are regulated if you choose a good website - BACP, Counselling Directory, UKcp, welldoing.org (nhs recommended).

It’s a lot easier to find a regulated and trained counsellor than an unregulated one.

That’s not true of other private ‘treatments’ - you can pay over a £100 an hour for homeopathic, reiki, holistic therapist/Alexander technique/hypnotherapist.You can even pay that for a hairdresser or a chiropractor.

So there are a lot of unregulated treatments out there.

to be a trained and qualified counsellor, you must complete 4 years of training, not two. A level 2, level 3 and level 4 (taken over 2 years) is required. On top of that, you’ll need 100 placement hours as a volunteer counsellor, carried out in a reputable agency (like Mind, Rape Crisis) and about 30 odd hours undertaking your own personal therapy. And an hour of supervision for every 6 hours you spend counselling others. On top of that, it’s very expensive to train properly and become properly qualified and a member of the BACP. I agree that it should be regulated properly, but the idea that counsellors can just do a 2 year course and go off and work isn’t true. Not true of the qualified BACP regulated ones anyway. You should always check that your counsellor is a member of the BACP because I agree, there are some counsellors out there who’ve maybe completed a short course in hypnotherapy and think they can now charge £50 an hour, but if you check their qualifications, this should rule it out. Oh and CBT is counselling.

I have gone to people with letters after their names and I have looked up what all the letters stand for . My problem was not being completely honest with them. So if someone goes along and tells about rows with DH but doesn't tell about their abusive childhood the counsellor will struggle to help. Would that be described as poor counselling?

Yanbu. I've had some fucking terrible counseling. Incidentally, it was still helpful because it made me trust my own judgement instead of listening to the batshit counselor ("maybe you should ask your boss when it would be a good time for you to have another baby?").

This was though NHS IAPT by the way.

Some rather extreme reactions here to OP perfectly reasonable questions. It's virtually impossible to assess effectiveness other than on an individual basis. It seems its a matter of chance whether you hit it off with one another or not and I wouldn't want to go through a selection process if I had the need for immediate help. However, I don't see an alternative to that.

I am in full agreement with the OP, potplant and others and I find the attempts to gaslight the OP quite disconcerting.

All the OP seems to be saying to me is that counselling is not the automatic solution and when it is presented as such, one starts to question the motives behind this and one of these motives could well be financial.

All three of my counsellors were BACP registered but they weren't equally good.

What alternative do you suggest ?

The alarming thing about the profession is that it is not a protected profession. Therefore anyone could hire a space, whack a sign out front and offer a counselling service.
As a whole it does the profession no favours and elicits questions regarding the legitimacy of the service.
Regarding professional accreditation with a governing body such as the BACP, UKCP or HCPC looking for this when selecting a therapist can be of comfort as there is accountability if you (as a client) feel your needs are not being met or something inappropriate is happening.
Saying that, gaining accreditation is time consuming and costly, think accruing 450+ clinical hours and countless personal therapy hours, all at cost to the therapist. This is one reason why not all therapists have that accreditation, it can take a long time and there are many hoops to jump through.

Any therapist worth their salt would not encourage a client to begin/continue (ie, keep taking someone's money) if the work they were doing was not in the clients best interests.
Of course there will always be charlatans who do not work ethically but this is not true of the profession overall.

Lastly, therapy will work if you want it to. As I said above a therapist will not take someone's money willy nilly and if therapeutic movement is not being made because there is no relationship established he or she should be working with you to find you someone who can help. If the individual is not ready or not suitable for therapy services will not be engaged.

I can't stress enough how important it is to find the right therapist to work with and sometimes this is a time consuming, and yes, costly, exercise, but essential in selecting the right person to work with.

The two therapists who were so useless/harmful to me were BACP registered and both had all the right qualifications, experience, etc. It’s structural more than personal, I think. It’s not a case of a few bad apples but that the ‘therapy’ or ‘counselling’ offered by the vast majority of private practitioners is at best useless or no better than a friendly ear, and at worst actively harmful.

The second counsellor of mine, qualified, registered, etc, told me to stop taking the antidepressants my GP had prescribed for serious suicide ideation.

Potplant2
I agree with everything you have just said.
My biggest concern is that very vulnerable people are being referred by doctors or paying privately for 'sit and listen' sessions which will be of absolutely no use to them.