Wheelchair user on the bus

[Penguinpower]

Yesterday I was taking my grandmother (in a wheelchair) to hospital on the bus (London bus) and unfortunately it was rush hour as appointment was 9.10

When the bus turned up it was completely rammed and no way we could get on. The bus driver yelled down the bus that people needed to get off to let the wheelchair on and he would give people a ticket so they could get on another bus for free. Unsurprisingly people did not want to do this, a couple of people did but most people ignored and my grandma was uncomfortable with the situation and told the bus driver not to worry. The next bus that came was also rammed and so I called a taxi.

So this is more of a WWYD but do you think people should get off to let wheelchair on or not? I’m in 2 minds as around 10 people would have to get off to let us on and they could then get on other buses easier. As easier for them to squeeze on. However, they have paid for the bus and as it is rush hour they would most likely be heading to work as no one would choose to be on that busy a bus if they didn’t have to be.

My grandma doesn’t think they should have to get off and I think I probably agree but the bus driver obviously thought they should. So what do you think?

I wrote a thread on here a few years back about a somewhat similar situation.

Rural area, earliest bus to city got you there at 8:50, next bus would have got you there at 10:20.

Bus was almost always at capacity by the second stop.

At the 3rd stop twice a week was a wheelchair user. She used to take the bus to the library which was 2 stops from where she got on. Those 2 stops were were equivalent to a mile and a half.

No one would ever get off the bus to let her get on. At least 5 people would have had to have volunteered for her to fit.

After advice from posters, I wrote to the bus company but nothing was ever changed. They couldn’t put a double decker on as bus had to go under a bridge. They couldn’t put another bus on and in fact a short while after amalgamated the second and third service into one.

It got so bad that the bus just used to go past the stop she was at without stopping.

But I don’t blame anyone for not getting off the bus. It wasn’t their fault - it’s the bus companies.

Why are we scrapping amongst ourselves for crumbs instead of saying that the people responsible for these services need to provide enough for everyone

Because nobody is willing to pay a hike in fares to cover extra services.

Bimgy - the wheelchair user is more important when referring to a wheelchair space. I’m checking with my MP as to when it will be illegal for people to refuse to leave the bus when a wheelchair user needs the designated place.

I agree.

If you were to go to an interview for a job you desperately need, and waiting to be interviewed were four other people who also desperately need the job, one being in a wheelchair, you wouldn’t all leave the waiting room to ensure the person with the wheelchair gets the job.

The same applies if you’re on a bus going to work knowing that If you get off the bus, making yourself late and risking your job (in my case it would be a warning)

This shouldn’t be a choice anyone has to make, and no one should feel guilty for saying they would stay on the bus. Not everything is as simple as that. The bus company should ensure that supply meets demand.

Can’t believe some of the posts on here. Wheelchair space is for wheelchairs. It’s public transport and required by law to be accessible. So what it’s rush hour. People in a wheelchair have a right to go to work at normal hours fgs. She should not have had to use a taxi, or flaming dial a ride. She is entitled to get in. So if you, whoever you are horrid person, are standing in the wheelchair space, flipping get out and let the person in a wheelchair get on. Be very grateful you are not in a wheelchair and every journey becomes a nightmare because of SELFISH PEOPLE.

@Bigmy85

Neither are more important but both are equal. So therefore I'd like to see a person in a wheelchair afforded the same opportunities as an able bodied person which includes being able to travel by public transport.

Around 60 able bodied people can get on a double decker bus (I think). I don't think it is unreasonable that 1 person in a wheelchair can also get on that bus. If it is at the expense of 5 of the 60 able bodied people then that's still 55:1 able bodied to wheelchairs. I really don't think that's an unreasonable ratio which enormously works in your favour (assuming you are an able bodied person)

But more importantly, I think it's the right of the person in the wheelchair to be able to travel with dignity, like the rest of us can. That they don't have to face tutting, rolled eyes, shouting, swearing and just a general ignorant attitude from people who don't understand that life is enormously more difficult for a person in a wheelchair and that actually it is just a basic human courtesy to be tolerant and helpful.

I hope you are not that person. But given you are citing the "first come first served" I'm willing to bet you're one of these people who would race a blind person on the tube to get the last seat (and yes, I've witnessed this, and yes, I gave up my seat and no I am not some paragon of virtue for doing this, I am doing what EVERY able bodied person should do every single fucking time)

But there are so many entitled, selfish pricks in this world I don't think that a wheelchair bound person will ever experience the same dignity and freedom which we do as able bodied people.

The expression is "First come first SERVED", FFS. "First come first serve" is gibberish.

so who's more important then? Nobody. A person without a wheelchair is not more important and neither is the wheelchair user

In a space designated for wheelchair users, the wheelchair user is definitely more important.

Clueing4looks

If you were to go to an interview for a job you desperately need, and waiting to be interviewed were four other people who also desperately need the job, one being in a wheelchair, you wouldn’t all leave the waiting room to ensure the person with the wheelchair gets the job

Fucking hell. How did you manage to get a job if you really think that statement makes sense?

If you risk getting a warning by being late for work - leave a little earlier to avoid this.

Jesus. The ableism on this thread is stunning.

@nellieellie not going to happen simply because not enough wheelchair users take buses. Unfortunately numbers are needed to force people to change their behaviour.

Oh and it is common for people to refuse to go up stairs on double-decked buses when they have nothing wrong with them.

If you were to go to an interview for a job you desperately need, and waiting to be interviewed were four other people who also desperately need the job, one being in a wheelchair, you wouldn’t all leave the waiting room to ensure the person with the wheelchair gets the job.

WTAF. Please tell me you don't think that is in any way similar to the actual bus situation

If you were to go to an interview for a job you desperately need, and waiting to be interviewed were four other people who also desperately need the job, one being in a wheelchair, you wouldn’t all leave the waiting room to ensure the person with the wheelchair gets the job

Do you honestly think that works as an analogy?

FFS - the disablism on this thread is astonishing. I've seen many a wheelchair/pram debate on MN before but this takes the biscuit. How can those arguing that it is "first come first served" not understand that there are limited opportunities for wheelchair users to access buses compared to abled bodied users. Therefore the wheelchair space should always be made available if a wheelchair user needs it.

The other thing that has really shocked me about this thread is the amount of diminution of disabled people. The automatic assumption that able bodied people are more important because they have to get to work, ignoring the very likely fact that the wheelchair user equally has to get to work.

to those posters who live this life daily whereas I encounter it only on here. If it is any consolation (not sure it would be) but for any wheelchair users in competition for a job with some of the posters on here (as in Clueings illustration) then you wouldn't be needing the able bodied job seekers to leave the room to ensure you got the job

punch up not down

It was an analogy. It was in response to people saying that the person in the wheelchair is also going to work. Everyone travelling in rush hour is most likely going to work. Saying leave earlier is ridiculous. I’ve lived in London. Rush ‘hour’ is from 6:30 - 9.

So It does make sense. No one is that altruistic that they would get off the bus knowing that by doing so they’ll lose their job.

Ensure the wheelchair user gets the job = ensure the wheelchair user gets to work on time.

Ensure the wheelchair user gets the job = ensure the wheelchair user gets to work on time

It absolutely doesn’t work. A wheelchair user isn’t asking for special treatment e.g being handed a job. They’re asking to be treated equally in allowing them to use public transport like everyone else.

It can’t come soon enough that people are legally required to vacate the wheelchair space.

Clueing4looks

I'm embarrassed for you - I think you should ask for your original post to be deleted as it really does you no favours whatsoever. I am incredulous (and almost a bit amused in a "ah bless" kind of way) that you think that is an analogy.

If you were to go to an interview for a job you desperately need, and waiting to be interviewed were four other people who also desperately need the job, one being in a wheelchair, you wouldn’t all leave the waiting room to ensure the person with the wheelchair gets the job

If the non-disabled people were in an area specifically designated for the wheelchair user and refused to leave in order to let the wheelchair user come in, I imagine they could all wave goodbye to their chances of getting that job.

The bus drivers can make people move from the space but they can’t make them get off the bus. If there’s no where for them to move to then I don’t see why they should volunteer to get off.

I think all buses should have a wheelchair area that's only accessible by radar key. Not totally isolated like a booth obviously but maybe a very low door or something just to differentiate that this space is not just for anyone.

I had to get the bus last week and could barely manage with a buggy. It would been impossible if i were in a wheelchair. It's scandalous how inaccessible public transport is to anyone but single able bodied people.

If there’s no where for them to move to then I don’t see why they should volunteer to get off

Because they’re standing in - and here’s the clue, with it being in the name and all - the wheelchair space.

The legislation will change so if there’s nowhere for them to move, they absolutely will have to get off. Quite right too and something you should expect if you’re standing in that area.

I'm hiding this thread at this stage because I simply don't need this kind of vile toxic prejudice in my life on a Sunday night or any night.

I'm out.