Wheelchair user on the bus

[Penguinpower]

Yesterday I was taking my grandmother (in a wheelchair) to hospital on the bus (London bus) and unfortunately it was rush hour as appointment was 9.10

When the bus turned up it was completely rammed and no way we could get on. The bus driver yelled down the bus that people needed to get off to let the wheelchair on and he would give people a ticket so they could get on another bus for free. Unsurprisingly people did not want to do this, a couple of people did but most people ignored and my grandma was uncomfortable with the situation and told the bus driver not to worry. The next bus that came was also rammed and so I called a taxi.

So this is more of a WWYD but do you think people should get off to let wheelchair on or not? I’m in 2 minds as around 10 people would have to get off to let us on and they could then get on other buses easier. As easier for them to squeeze on. However, they have paid for the bus and as it is rush hour they would most likely be heading to work as no one would choose to be on that busy a bus if they didn’t have to be.

My grandma doesn’t think they should have to get off and I think I probably agree but the bus driver obviously thought they should. So what do you think?

I wouldn't get off if I was on my way to work.

One thing I have noticed is that standing passengers often won’t move to the back of the bus as it fills up. So the front of the bus gets more and more congested and people spill over into the wheelchair area.

Its also virtually impossible to get hospital transport these days if you're deemed able to travel by other means, which this lady was (although at great inconvenience).
I work in the NHS so have experience of this.
A wheelchair user has every right to use public transport and to use the space designated for them, even if this causes inconvenience for able-bodied passengers

This thread has reminded me to write to my MP and the Transport Secretary to ask when it will become law for passengers to have to get off to make space for a wheelchair user.

viccat what if a wheelchair user needs to get to work every morning?

No. That's not really an apt comparison.
It’s perfectly apt to compare wheelchair spaces on buses with Blue Badge parking spaces. Both are spaces set aside for those who need them. If it is appropriate for parking spaces never to be used by people who aren’t entitled to, why not the same for wheelchair spaces on buses?

havingabadhairday
I absolutely agree. The problem is with poor bus provision for everyone. I would never want anyone to lose their job or miss an appointment having to get off a bus for me. It isn’t their fault bus services are shit.

Although, there is a part of me which wished it happened a lot more so that a whole load more voices would be added to mine, shouting about poor accessibility!

James is looking for work, he’s on job seekers and will be sanctioned by the job centre if he’s late and he lives in an area when public transport is poor. The bus is busy and he’s standing in the wheelchair space.

Emma is looking for work, she’s on job seekers and will be sanctioned by the job centre if she’s late and she lives in an area where public transport is poor. The bus is busy and people are standing in the wheelchair space.

Emma doesn’t exist in most people’s minds. They just assume she’s on her way to a hospital appointment or perhaps to see a friend. She’s not considered an equal.

if an able-bodied person had to take a bus for a 9:10 appointment they wouldn't give it a second thought.

Why the fuck should a disabled person, in a wheelchair, knowing there are wheelchair spaces on every single bus, have to make alternative arrangements just because it's rush hour? Anyone who thinks she should is an ableist fuck.

I agree with you, OP. Your poor, poor grandmother.

Makes no difference if it causes inconvenience for able bodied passengers or not. The wc space is for wc users. End of.

what tillytop said

Tillytop, that's what I said.

The bus companies should enclose the wheelchair areas some how and only open them when someone in a wheelchair boards the bus. That way all the selfish idiots who won't move when someone in a wheelchair needs to access the wheelchair space won't be on the bus.

Think that's a great idea.

In addition I'm surprised the bus companies aren't adding more buses - surely this shows the demand is there.

choirmumoftwo sorry must have missed it. Worth repeating though for the hard of understanding?

I was on the bus once with my pram and another lady was with her pram in the wheelchair space in London. The bus was busy and it was one of the first times I'd used public transport, I could and would have walked but I was trying to get home for a non important appointment. A wheelchair user wanted to get on and the driver shouted down that the space needed to be used which was fine, the other lady had a toddler as did I and was folding her chair. My pram didn't fold, it would after a lot of encouragement but unfolding it was a nightmare and it'd just refuse to do so. I didn't want to fold the pram so I moved forward a bit and put the break on to go and speak to the driver, I didn't want to shout at him but the rear doors weren't open and I was perfectly happy to get off and walk. As the bus was busy the path I'd use to get off would then be free for the wheelchair user to get on, via the back doors. An older man stood up and started shouting at me that I was so selfish and was refusing to let the wheelchair on! Then a lady by the front that I had to pass started, I ignored them both and politely asked the driver- who was quite rude and said I should collapse the pram several times until he got it that I didn't want to collapse my pram but I would rather get off- but the wheelchair user heard all this and said it was fine, he'd get the next bus. I didn't want to stay on the bus, just open the shitting door so I can get off! Eventually the driver did just open the back door so I could get off but it looked like I was refusing to all the other passengers and I was humiliated. I should have just shouted up a packed bus 'let me off!' . I genuinely didn't want to stay on, couldn't fold and gave no fucks about getting off but I was the bad guy!

I agree with the poster who said that the wheelchair space should be kept empty and ready for the possibility that a wheelchair user may board. Instead of it being filled with other passengers.

Yourcupwillneverempty can you imagine how that made the WC user feel?
gosh mn is really shite sometimes.

It’s perfectly apt to compare wheelchair spaces on buses with Blue Badge parking spaces. Both are spaces set aside for those who need them. If it is appropriate for parking spaces never to be used by people who aren’t entitled to, why not the same for wheelchair spaces on buses?

Well for starters if we had a proper enforceable priority system on buses (which was referred to in the following sentence of my post which was then omitted when I was quoted ) then the space could be occupied with passengers on an explicit understanding that they would be immediately turfed off the bus by the driver if a wheelchair user did turn up and accepting that they were only allowed to use the bus on that condition, with proper consequences if they refused. That's massively different from a situation where a non-disabled person parks a car in a blue badge bay and then disappears shopping leaving a disabled driver circling a car park looking for a space.

There's also other differences which make it a poor comparison including the fact that you can fit 12 non-disabled passengers in the single wheelchair space (rather than 1 car v 1 car), the relative rarity in my experience of the wheelchair spaces being used on buses by wheelchair users vs the relatively frequent use of blue badge bays by disabled people, and also of course the fact that most prats who nick blue badge spaces do it just to be closer to the shop rather than because the car park is otherwise completely full.

So my point was that it just seems obvious to me that it's better from an efficiency standpoint to fill the bus up as much as possible but be able to immediately turf people off in the relatively rare instance when the wheelchair space is needed.

To play devil's advocate for a second, I can see from a purely utilitarian standpoint it would be better to have one person late than 12 people late and some able-bodied people might use this as an argument for not getting off the bus. However, I do think that the wheelchair user should nevertheless be given priority because otherwise they would always lose out and practically it might be possible for eg 6 of the able-bodied passengers to squeeze on to the next bus and the remaining 6 on the one after, whereas the wheelchair user could be left waiting for ages. I would therefore support Parliament making changes so that the priority is enforceable.

If the bus driver had already allowed them to board it is unreasonable to expect people to get off. Really the bus should not be so full that they have had to stand in the wheelchair space but in the real world they are very busy in rush hour. Arranging transport via the hospital if eligible or a taxi if not is probably the only solution for early appointments if you don't have a car.

so the person in a wheelchair has to arrange other transport....so that able bodied or non WC users can use the WHEELCHAIR space......
yep thats right......so why don't the able bodied people get a taxi?

I can not believe that people would not shift their arses out of a wheelchair space for a wheelchair

The busses around mine are chock a block from 7.15-9.00. What happens to the person in a wheelchair who needs to get to work for 8.30 if no one will let them on the bus? Or do people think that wheelchair users don't need to work, go to hospital, take their kids to school etc?

Fucking selfish.

"And of course there could easily be a wheelchair user who needs to commute to work during rush hour."

Oh yeah Weird how many are very keen on disabled people being found FIT to work but not so keen on enabling them to actually GET to work!!!!!!!!

If I wasn't in a rush i would of got off if i was like going to work i wouldn't off, you dont know what priority people are traveling to.
The bus driver was unreasonable and even though he was trying to help your grandad it's good your grandad said something.

anniehm - why should the wheelchair user make alternative arrangements? Public transport is for all to use regardless of whether it is rush hour. Many wheelchair users (including one of my neighbors) commute daily at rush hour to go to work in Central London.

There is a wheelchair priority space in the bus. Anyone who gets on and the wheelchair priority space is the only place to stand knows they have to make way if a wheelchair user needs the space.

Belina - it is irrelevant what the reason is for the wheelchair users journey. You should not be in a designated wheelchair space unless you are in a wheelchair.