Wheelchair user on the bus

[Penguinpower]

Yesterday I was taking my grandmother (in a wheelchair) to hospital on the bus (London bus) and unfortunately it was rush hour as appointment was 9.10

When the bus turned up it was completely rammed and no way we could get on. The bus driver yelled down the bus that people needed to get off to let the wheelchair on and he would give people a ticket so they could get on another bus for free. Unsurprisingly people did not want to do this, a couple of people did but most people ignored and my grandma was uncomfortable with the situation and told the bus driver not to worry. The next bus that came was also rammed and so I called a taxi.

So this is more of a WWYD but do you think people should get off to let wheelchair on or not? I’m in 2 minds as around 10 people would have to get off to let us on and they could then get on other buses easier. As easier for them to squeeze on. However, they have paid for the bus and as it is rush hour they would most likely be heading to work as no one would choose to be on that busy a bus if they didn’t have to be.

My grandma doesn’t think they should have to get off and I think I probably agree but the bus driver obviously thought they should. So what do you think?

Bimgy85 = selfish

I get buses most days. I have never, ever seen standing passengers keep the wheelchair space clear just in case. The capacity signs state something like either 1 wheelchair and 12 standing passengers or 0 wheelchair and 16 standing passengers. (Numbers a guess.) There isn’t a legal requirement as far as I’m aware for passengers to get off. Nice if they do though.

cant you get a com cab (or is it a cab com?) dunno but my dad gets them. not free but half price taxi. I would rather that than get on a rush hour bus.

Bus driver is very very much in the wrong.
They are not allowed to ask people to get off! They can ask people to move out of the space (if there is space to move) but they can't ask people to get off!
And why should they!

Oh please. I'm selfish because I'd rather make someone else late than myself?

It would be stupid to do it the other way not caring.

Here (Leeds) they would have made the people in the space move. If they didn't they would have just shut the bus down and given them a row till they moved. Everyone knows that the wheelchairs have priority.

I think next time I would book either hospital transport or a taxi OP. If your grannies is bad enough to use a wheelchair she should be getting AA anyway so hopefully will be able to afford a taxi. Also if the appointment is really early like 9 am it can be hard to get a taxi,I'd rearrange for later in the day.You are allowed to do this.

Hopefully the law will change soon for passengers to have to get off a bus to give priority to a wheelchair user rather than relying on the driver asking but having no legal authority to insist.

How do you expect the wheelchair user to access the space if no one will move to allow them on, fgs?

Wheelchair Users have priority by LAW

A bus driver who does not ensure the space is cleared for you is breaking that law.

Actually, this isn't quite correct. The buses have wheelchair spaces and drivers are supposed to do things to strongly encourage other bus users to move (eg tell people to move and threaten not to drive on until people do so) but they cannot actually force people to move and are not legally required to ensure the space is cleared. Whilst it's a good idea for the bus driver to threaten not to drive on until other passengers comply, it is in reality an empty threat as it would be reasonable for the driver to give up with this tactic after a couple of minutes and drive on.

A pp suggested not letting so many people on the bus so that the space remains clear but I disagree as this would be a very inefficient use of space - most of the time the wheelchair space is not needed for a wheelchair user and it makes sense to cram an extra 10 people on. But I do think Parliament needs to look again at this because the supposed priority is currently fairly ineffective.

On many buses it is quite easy to be at (or over) the legal capacity without anyone being stood in the wheelchair area. While other passengers can be asked to move elsewhere within the bus the law does not expect bus drivers to ask people to leave the bus as this would lead to many confrontations and unnecessarily put the driver at the risk of harm. If a bus is too full for anyone to board this includes wheelchairs and it is only when able bodied passengers would be able to board the bus that wheelchair users have the right for the wheelchair area to be emptied.

@ValleyClouds that is utter bollocks, you are talking nonsense.

We have to ask if people will move, fold up peaks etc, if they won't do it then you can't force them.
There is a form we have to fill in to say we had to decline a wheelchair and then we have to radio or phone control so they can let the next bus know there is a wheelchair waiting so they can try to make space.

You definitely can't ask them to get off once they've paid!

most of the time the wheelchair space is not needed for a wheelchair user and it makes sense to cram an extra 10 people on.

Just like disabled parking spaces? Perhaps everyone should use them when the car park is full because they are so busy and important

The passenger limit on a bus is actually to do with weight so some buses technically many more people on board than would physically fit while others may only permit a handful of standees despite there physically being room for significantly more. While many drivers ignore the plated capacity in this case it is illegal for them to do so and therefore drivers shouldn't do this and definitely cannot be told to do so in any circumstances.
Therefore it is quite possible for the wheelchair area to be empty but it still not be possible for anymore passengers to board. Bus companies also have a legal requirement to provide sufficient capacity although this isn't always possible in peak times.

I love these threads, just proves my theory about some people.

The bus companies should enclose the wheelchair areas some how and only open them when someone in a wheelchair boards the bus. That way all the selfish idiots who won't move when someone in a wheelchair needs to access the wheelchair space won't be on the bus.

Just like disabled parking spaces? Perhaps everyone should use them when the car park is full because they are so busy and important

No. That's not really an apt comparison.

It's simple, isn't it? Anyone in the wheelchair space should have got off and grandma goes in the wheelchair space. Everyone who had to get off should then complain to bus company that the driver had packed people into that designated space.

I did say further on in the thread that no one can be forced off but the driver should make every effort to get people to make way.

Posting on disability threads doesn't half stress me out to be honest I stopped doing it for a while. and maybe should go back to that policy of just hiding such threads.If you don't know what is like, you don't know and I hope none of you ever do.

”Now I know there is a designated wheelchair space on the bus for wheelchair users which was obviously taken up by people sitting there but again, no one can force them to get off”

No one can force them off but it says an awful lot about a group of people. It’s not excusable. Maybe they had to get to work urgently but tough shit, it’s public transport. You should leave enough time to ensure you don’t need to abuse a disabled persons space. It’s fine to stand there but if a person needs it, they need it and the law is on their side.

It’s fine to stand there but if a person needs it, they need it and the law is on their side.

The law isn't really on their side at the moment though, which is why Parliament need to do something.

HOW are cities still with buses that cause this? We have a pushchair AND seperate wheelchair space that a 2nd pushchair can use. 2nd pushchair will be asked to fold or take free ticket if a wheelchair requires their space. Never has there been a need for other passengers to vacate. It works. No one kicked off. It’s norm. It’s fair for everyone

@Parker231

Hopefully the law will change soon for passengers to have to get off a bus to give priority to a wheelchair user rather than relying on the driver asking but having no legal authority to insist.

Hopefully the law will also protect the people who have to get off the bus from possible repercussions from managers, job centres etc.

You can't completely blame someone at risk of sanctions or on a zero hour contract who might lose their income for not getting off the bus. Or someone else on their way to a hospital appointment they've been waiting for for months.

Of course I'm sure a number of people just don't care, shame we can't tell who they are and just make them get off.

The bus companies should enclose the wheelchair areas somehow and only open them when someone in a wheelchair boards the bus That's it, that's the answer! Why haven't the bus companies thought of this yet?

havingabadhairday many people across the country manage to navigate public transport and get to work on time. The trains in my area are shit, so you leave earlier or get the bus or drive or walk or cycle. It sucks but there’s no excuse for refusing to move from a wheelchair space for a wheelchair user. I mean there are probably some very rare exceptions but needing to get to work is not one of them. We all need to get to work.

What if a wheelchair user needs to get to work?