Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think life shouldn’t be easier for those on benefits than those who work?

605 replies

Alwaysoverdrawn · 21/09/2018 16:19

obviously not including the disabled, elderly etc in this

I am so fed up of being poor so I looked into doing an access course to increase my earning potential. My sister is doing one and is currently on benefits, she gets it for free with her childcare paid.

Having spoken to them, we earn too much to be considered for help. Having looked into mine and my sisters finances I think this is frankly bloody ridiculous. We are worse off than her ffs.

We make around £2,500 NET p/m, £1000 rent, £900 childcare -2 adults, 2 kids. So £600 ‘disposable’ pm with a lot of debts to pay.

She gets £670pm plus her full rent paid and a council tax reduction for her and one child.

AIBU to think life shouldn’t be ‘easier’ for those on benefits than those who work?

DP hasn’t been to the dentist despite needing to for years as he can’t afford treatment, I’m really down today. Seriously considering moving out so that I can claim benefits and get out of this horrible rut.

OP posts:
CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mumoftwox · 22/09/2018 17:56

I honestly think the people on this thread saying "they know people who have had kids to get a house and benefits" are absoulte liers!!. I have been on benefits when my son was born have since done an access course, hnc and now in 2nd year uni!! can I point out that the year I was in the access course and on benefits they stopped all my benefits accusing me of having someone living with me I then had to go buy my son toys from car boot sale for his Christmas!! people are so good at bringing others down when in reality you choose to have a mortgage which is 1000 per month I wish I could afford a mortgage like that and am sure people one benefits in their tiny house wish they could too!! everyone's time will come when they can work or are ready for work but you need education to get a decent job which pays a decent wage. I think you should stop judging and count your blessings that you do not need to rely on benefits

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 18:00

Not sure about having kids to stay on benefits but I’ve met a number of people who have remained on long term sick.

Like (everyone) has said, work should pay more so people aren’t stuck in the trap

BitchQueen90 · 22/09/2018 18:02

@CantankerousCamel

The thing is though, rent costs will make a huge difference to the quality of life on £2.5k a month.

My income is £1.7k a month (including child maintenance from my ex husband). But because I live in the midlands andbmy rent and bills are so cheap, I have over £1k of that left over as disposable income every month. I don't feel poor at all, I feel pretty comfortable. If I was on £2.5k a month I'd be laughing.

If I lived in the south and was paying a premium in rent I'd feel really poor. It's all relative.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 18:11

I have low rent, high council tax but still both together only come to £550 a month. I suppose the issue wirh thst is that we have to update the house quite a lot for it to be suitable for humans to live in!

I think we live very well, but that quite a recent thing, we lived on less and it was difficult. What is interesting is we have probably the same or just under the disposable income of our neighbours who receive DLA, plus they get a variety of other benefits (FSM etc etc). I’m not saying they shouldn’t get those things, I’m simply saying that the government clearly consider about amount to be a good baseline and it is far, far more than £600 a month after rent and bills and therefore far, far more than lots of people get when they stop receiving help. There is a disconnect there.

JuJu2017 · 22/09/2018 18:16

Totally agree with you OP. Can’t believe someone tried to blame your lack of exp enable cash on you being in debts - people on benefits are in debt too; the only difference is they use tax payers money to pay it off instead of their own!
You are not being unreasonable at all. The one that really grates me is the 15 hours free for 2 year olds whose parents are on benefits. It’s just assumed that if you aren’t on benefits you can afford to send your child to nursery when that isn’t the case! Niece whose mum is on benefits went to nursery at 2 but ds had to wait until 3. Dn was allowed to go because sil is on benefits and so it was supposed to even her chances out with kids whose parents go to work/cope without benefits. In reality Dn learned to socialise faster than ds and ds is now the one on the underprivileged side because he hasn’t had the chance to develop social skills because I work ...

ohreallyohreallyoh · 22/09/2018 18:35

people on benefits are in debt too; the only difference is they use tax payers money to pay it off instead of their own!

Oh wow. You know it’s perfectly possible to work and claim benefits, don’t you? I suspect you do, absolutely. Is it fun trying to make the thousands of working benefit claimants feel bad about themselves?

I also know one single parent who has a council flat, rent paid by housing benefit, gets free prescriptions, full bursary for child at private school, and only works the 'required' 16 hours a week (so two days) in order to get all that

Erm....private schools don’t expect their pupils parents to work a set number of hours. They do, however, give bursaries to children who have the potential to go far in their school. Bursaries are always much sought after and Impersonally do ‘t know of any full bursaries (although acknowledge it may happen). Free prescriptions are available to many people - including those who work. And whilst the 16 hour a week thing maybe frustrating if you are in full time work, it is worth remembering that a couple only needs work 24 hours - not even full time between them. You know sod all about benefits and even less about the single parents whose lives you think you know so well. But by all means, amuse yourself by talking absolute shite.

HelenaDove · 22/09/2018 18:38

but I’ve met a number of people who have remained on long term sick.

Some illnesses are long term unfortunately like COPD and cystic fibrosis.

HelenaDove · 22/09/2018 18:48

"r his Christmas!! people are so good at bringing others down when in reality you choose to have a mortgage which is 1000 per month I wish I could afford a mortgage"

They also have a habit of coming on the social housing threads and berating tenants for daring to want heating or hot water if a tenant has been waiting ages for a fix. And pointing out that if they want THEIR boiler fixed they have to pay for it themselves. Well no shit Its your house.

I remember asking on a thread where someone was going to take out a big mortgage whether they were going to take out boiler insurance and more than one poster jumped in and said it was not needed. Hmm

And then they moan about tenants not taking responsibility for a boiler that isnt theirs.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 18:50

Yes Helena and some, like an ACL injury, or a damaged shoulder are also permanent but no need for someone to spend the better part of their lives on the sick.

I know you don’t think these people exist but they do. I would much prefer they exist than people who need disability payments have any more trouble accessing them but that is all beside the point.

The point is that the government offer a certain amount of money, certain other benefits (like free school trips and meals) because the government ACKNOWLEDGES THE NEED FOR THOSE THINGS ON LOW INCOMES but doesn’t offer those benefits or that support when THE WORKING POOR are on the same or less money than those claimants of benefits.

I’m not sure how many more times I’m going to have to write the above comment again, so if you could just read it, maybe two, three times, that would be SWELL

Graphista · 22/09/2018 18:55

As I've explained on this thread and will also be clear from other posts on other threads, and I don't just mean benefit bashing ones but ones where eg posters are asking for help budgeting, are suddenly in difficult circumstances due to illness, relationship breakdown etc where I've given hopefully helpful and indeed compassionate advice, I do indeed know what it is to struggle. Hell I've been homeless twice!

I haven't poked fun, I've asked questions and challenged discrepancies like many others did.

Not that it's particularly relevant but my nursing degree was paid for presumably due to it being an essential service and yes it was at a time when there was more support for nursing students. Dreadful this support has now been removed and not only for the students.

My 2nd degree was via loan, the plan had been to retrain for a new career which was more suited to being a parent. Some of that loan has been paid off but currently my understanding is its 'Frozen' due to my being unable to work. Not sure what will happen in the future.

I haven't set out to paint the op in a bad light, there was no need. Op was more than happy to go on the attack themselves without any encouragement from me or anyone else.

I certainly haven't attacked anyone - struggling or not. I've queried whether certain folk inc op really are struggling.

I've even been clear that I agree there's a big problem with too low wages - BUT having gone on several benefits calculators and doing various "sums" myself, op's information doesn't totally "add up", which I've also queried (again I'm not the only one) but she's chosen not to correct/provide more info.

I absolutely do have compassion for those who are struggling and who don't then "kick the cat" in response - which is EXACTLY what op did right from first post.

Rather than saying eg "Aibu to think that the govt don't recognise that people on low wages are struggling and need more support?"

She said "Aibu to think life shouldn't be easier for those on benefits than those who work?" Straight away setting up a "them v us" antagonistic argument.

People therefore responded accordingly.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 18:58

But again, the fact this funding is available to those on benefits is relevant.

For the reasons given in my last post.

I can’t ssy you’ve come across as compassionate or kind here, graph. Just seem to be in it for the lolz with your friends at someone else’s expense

Xenia · 22/09/2018 19:01

These threads are always half right on both sides. We all know people claiming to be sick who aren't and come across it time and time again. Yet of course there are lots of other very deserving cases where peoplea are sick either short or long term. So it is hard to generalise. What is clear is that both the Labour and Tory party have found that policies that help people back into work and do not reward those who don't work are very very popular with voters of all kinds (and they are certainly popular with me too).

Alwaysoverdrawn · 22/09/2018 19:15

And you wonder why I’ve told people to read graphista! No mumoftwox I don’t have a big house or a mortgage. I have a small rented 2 bedroom flat.
I’ve answered every question on my circumstance I don’t see what’s not adding up? But this thread isn’t about me, as I’ve said I’ve enquired about every benefit, I’ve spoken to the open university many times and I do my sisters budget so everything I’m stating is fact (at least from those who work there)
I think a lot of people have taken their own feelings on benefits in general and projected them onto this thread, rather than listening to my points.
Not that benefits should be cut, That help shouldn’t be a ‘tick box for benefits’ service and that actually you can be poor whilst working and those in charge should recognise this and support them.

I’ve explained that several times, if you don’t agree with me then it’s a free country that’s fine, move along.

OP posts:
SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning · 22/09/2018 19:21

I think you’re unreasonable but I do recognise how hard it is when you’re working and struggling. It’s not about being in poverty but struggling drags you down. I think you’ve come across in a way that makes you seem envious whereas that’s not what you’re actually trying to say. The message is that working families/people are stretched to the max and it’s galling.

Graphista · 22/09/2018 19:29

I’m not sure how many more times I’m going to have to write the above comment again, so if you could just read it, maybe two, three times, that would be SWELL - and you think I'M pompous!

Re disability, it's complicated in many cases. A big issue is employers in an employers market (which it usually is) are unlikely to employ anyone with a history of sickness/disability. Yes they're not supposed to discriminate but in the real world, that's what happens.

They (understandably to a degree) don't want to employ people who need time off for appointments, or because their condition is proving just too much that day. They don't want to make reasonable adjustments. There's also the fact that being off long term sick/disabled leads to loss of skills, not acquiring skills one naturally would by continuing working eg technology moves on, lack of work experience, loss of confidence, not being sure how working again will affect you (eg can you cope with full time or will part time be enough, if part time how many hours?) - including financially.

Cuts to education and training services haven't helped here. I've a friend who is working in a manual job (warehouse work) she's coping at the moment but it will become less the case as she gets older. So she thought she'd be sensible and look to retrain into something more office based. Got a place on a local college course, was all excited looking forward to it - cancelled due to cuts. She's currently looking for something similar but at the moment the nearest is about 2.5 hours away, which she couldn't manage with continuing working in order to earn and with being a single parent (father deceased sadly).

I personally mistakenly thought I was well enough to return to work part time (if an office based role with premises I could access - I can't manage stairs or slopes well) but due to lack of recent work experience it became clear I needed to update my IT skills, if only so I had something on paper to show prospective employers. But all I found was either really basic courses best suited to people who'd never used a computer before in a professional capacity (I've several years experience as an administrator but also every job I've done including nursing has meant using various bespoke software) so wasn't really suitable, or at the other end of the scale programming/web development courses which are far more advanced than where I'm at and wouldn't include the skills I needed to "brush up" on.

That's basically what I needed, a course for people who have used computers, even fairly confident, quick learners, but who were out of practice, who need pointing in the right direction and able to practice (to rebuild confidence too) those skills on the latest versions of the software which current employers are using, with guidance on most efficient use. Yet nothing like this exists near me. Talking to various local friends and acquaintances there's a demand for it, so I can only think that again it's lack of funding.

Personally I think the govt needs to employ a combination of carrot and stick approaches to encourage employers to employ sick/disabled workers.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I remember it used to be the case that medium to large employers were required to employ X amount of sick/disabled employees and that seems to no longer be the case. But also for small to medium employers I appreciate it could be difficult financially for them to support disabled/sick employees - so maybe a tax break or something would help there?

Also courses for training, rebuilding confidence are essential and need to be reinstated.

UC was SUPPOSED to make it easier for people who'd been out of work a long time (for whatever reason) able to 'ease' back in gradually building up hours. Unfortunately the software/system actually isn't coping with this idea at all!

mama17 · 22/09/2018 19:31

I massively agree no wonder people choose not to work as it's far too easy. I work single parent and struggle however my friend single parent but on benefits is so much better off. It's a shame

ohreallyohreallyoh · 22/09/2018 19:35

I work single parent and struggle however my friend single parent but on benefits is so much better off

Can you explain in some detail why this is the case? I am a working single parent and am better off in work but am not in a minimum wage job. I am not sure that people can understand how this might happen.

Sleepyblueocean · 22/09/2018 19:46

"What is interesting is we have probably the same or just under the disposable income of our neighbours who receive DLA, plus they get a variety of other benefits (FSM etc etc)."

Only children and pensioners get DLA. Other adults get PIP. PIP is not an income related benefit and so does not give you access to things like free school meals.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 19:48

Graph that’s not pompous, that’s sick to death of having to type the same thing again and again because people refuse to read it.

It’s very easy to see how people are better off out of work.

Childcare, travel expenses, loss of out of work benefits such as FSM and school trips. School meal at our school are £2.50 per day, so say £5 per day for a 2 child family, that’s £25 a week on its own.

Then music lessons, £70 a term or free if parents on benefits. Swimming lessons the same. I could go on.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 19:49

Sleepy maybe in your area, PIP is only introduced here when circumstances change

Sleepyblueocean · 22/09/2018 19:51

Neither of them give you access to things like FSM.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 19:55

Neither parent work, as I’ve pointed out previously in the thread.

They receive their out of work benefits and her disabled benefits and his carer benefits and have a take home pay that at least matches that of a family with two workers, one earning well above the national average.

This is not an issue, the issue is that if that is considered the amount a family needs to be comfortable, then working families should be supported up to that point and they are not.

Sleepyblueocean · 22/09/2018 19:59

Disability benefits cover the extra costs of being disabled so shouldn't be counted as extra income.

CantankerousCamel · 22/09/2018 20:01

What covers the extra costs of working?

You can goad me as much as you like into arguing with you about disability benefits, I’ve already made my opinions very clear.

The issue is not what people get when they need those benefits, it’s that half the people living in poverty in this country are working. That needs to be addressed without a bunch of numpties bleating on about goats