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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say there is a stigma attached to social housing?

147 replies

longwayoff · 19/09/2018 10:23

Yes there is and its come about through the pretty much wholesale flogging off of social housing stock. Can Mrs May fix it as ago she says she will? Or is this simply early electioneering?

OP posts:
Gacapa · 23/09/2018 20:25

I don’t care. I’ve just, finally, got a council house after waiting for years. It’s fab. They’ve put in brand new kitchen, bathroom, boiler, doors, radiators, drive and garden. I can do what I want with it. It’s got three bedrooms. It’s secure and I don’t have to pay for repairs. It’s in a lovely area. And it’s £83 a week.

People can think what they like. I’m on cloud nine.

MissMisery · 24/09/2018 09:43

I love the stigma! It meant we were able to buy a 3 double bedroomed, large gardened ex council house in a lovely village. 5 mums walk to outstanding school, shop, pub etc. Paid roughly half what a similar non ex council house around the corner would have been. All because of peoples snobbery! Love it.

MissMisery · 24/09/2018 09:45

Oh I should add before I get flamed... the house was already privately owned, so not depleting social housing stock.

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 17:33

Latest housing association supply stats. Including pie chart.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/new-development-by-housing-associations-falls-58322

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 19:59

More on the Barne Barton fire Tenants told they still have to pay rent........

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/families-forced-out-homes-after-2042361

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 20:10

There are some really good examples of stigma against social housing tenants in the comments of the most recent article ive linked.

Posted by people who see what they want to see.

WaterOffaDucksCrack · 26/09/2018 20:42

In my area a council house is desirable! It's secure housing, I'm on the list for mine and would prefer one. People are considered to be doing well if they can bag a council house tbh.

Whiskeyjar · 26/09/2018 20:45

Yes there is. I lived in social housing for years and often the majority of tenants are also victims of the antisocials who cause the stigma in the first place

GoodbyeSummer · 26/09/2018 21:05

I live on a street with mixed housing - owner occupiers, private rented, housing association and council. Ours is a housing association house and I've never felt or noticed any stigma or ill will towards us because of it.
It's an OK area in an ex-mining town in Yorkshire.
Unless we had a massive windfall, we won't be moving anytime soon.

Neshoma · 26/09/2018 21:09

@Helena. There is an element of truth in those comments. Most probably do have their rent paid for by the council. If they had mortgages they would still have to be paid and the council would still expect Council Tax. The £150 payment for essential items has been used to buy, well erm, essential items. I don't know what Cassie was complaining about.

Again, private residents would have to provide their own school transport.

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 21:15

Neshoma As with Grenfell the tenants have complaints going back years.

In this case about the lack of security and problems with the doors.

There were fires set in the building previously by people who just walked in because the building was easy to access.

Read the bloody article properly.

They are put through all that and you dont know what they are complaining about? FFS!

Racecardriver · 26/09/2018 21:16

It's definitely true of new build ones. They're seen as ruining the tone of the development and many people seem to get pissed of because they have to pay more/have Aller plots to 'subsodise' to ah (although I don't think they've thought that one through).

I think part of it is the feeling that people have got this housing without deserving it. Where I cone from social housing works differently. The housing Trust is responsible for building all new council houses (so you never get any in Naice developments) and they regularly sell ones in gentrified areas to build more in grubbier suburbs to increase the number of houses they have/avoid fixing up old falling apart ones. Right to buy doesn't exist. There is still a certain kind of stigma about living in a certain part of town but it's more because everyone in that part of town is a certain line of way. When people can see that you are decent and just have fallen on hard times they don't hold where you live against you. Whether you are in a council house or private rented is seen as pretty irrelevant.

Neshoma · 26/09/2018 22:22

Read the bloody article properly.

I did and then posted my opinion. It's hard as you've posted at least 20 links on this thread alone. I'd be here all day trying to read and respond. It is not known who or how the fire started, but the council have gone above and beyond, but wouldn't for a private domestic fire.

The stigma comes from residents receiving more that a private/mortgaged family would, and been seen not to contribute as much to society by way of paying tax.

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 23:25

A private mortgaged family would not have to contend with people coming into their property and starting fires because the housing management has ignored their warnings.

zsazsajuju · 26/09/2018 23:33

Helena - not necessarily. Lots of owner occupier/private rented flats are not well managed. When I was a student I lived in a block of flats where people routinely wandered in from the pub to pee and shit on the stairs. It was pretty stinky. It’s not uncommon for common areas to be poorly kept or managed in non public sector buildings.

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 23:40

Fair enough zsa i agree with that.

HelenaDove · 26/09/2018 23:43

"The councils trying to use Grenfell as an excuse to clear estates
Becka Hudson 20 September 2018

Since a fire killed 72 people in London's Grenfell Tower, councils have been using safety concerns to try to move people out of housing estates.

Broadwater Farm Estate. By Iridescenti - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0.

It seemed, at least for a time after the Grenfell fire, that social housing was atop the political agenda. Housing was centred at party conferences, discussed in reams of media, and organisations from across the political spectrum issued announcements, green papers, and reports on the topic. Many argued that Grenfell must signal a turning point in how the UK houses people. Amidst this discussion, we were introduced to the fire’s likely causes. There were those named individuals, from councillors to contractors, and then there were its systemic roots. A deeply embedded ‘culture’ of neglect and dispossession: the ignoring of tenants, the arbitrary revocation of crucial safety law, and widespread social cleansing of blocks, estates and entire neighbourhoods under the guise of ‘regeneration’.

Ten days after the fire and one borough across, late one Friday night, thousands of estate residents were rushed from their homes into makeshift relief shelters. Safety checks by Camden council, issued in the aftermath of Grenfell, had found the Chalcots estate covered in similar flammable cladding. The sudden evacuation was widely criticised. Residents complained about the councils’ aggressive approach, their lack of communication and rehousing options and, even as late as March this year, their disregard for residents as revelations of further safety problems emerged. Residents’ confrontations with council leader Georgia Gould went viral. One featured a woman countering Gould’s assertion that safety was the council’s priority, pointing out “for this long now you’ve allowed them to live in this property that’s been dangerous – how?”. Back up in Chalcots’ towers, around 200 people refused to leave. For them, the chaos and lack of support in leaving posing a greater threat than staying put. As one such occupier told a journalist “It [seeing Grenfell] does make us want to leave, But [...] there’s nowhere to go, and they’re not looking to move us out anywhere convenient.”

Despite the media, the promises and the reports, these catch-22s persist in estates across the country. For one, many thousands of people continue to live in buildings coated in flammable cladding. Though the prime minister finally committed to funding the removal of unsafe cladding from social blocks this May, the process is partial, and slow. And when such insulation is removed, residents are presented with a new safety battle. As Ruth from the Safe Cladding and Insulation Now (SCIN) campaign explains: “One of the most widespread safety risks is lack of insulation, in a country where thousands die every winter because they can't afford to heat their homes. [...]” She argues that unless the cladding crisis is acted on soon, “given the current standards of building regulations and enforcement, we are likely to see basically sound old estates demolished and replaced with "modern" ones where residents are at serious risk from both cold, and overheating.”

Elsewhere, local authorities are discovering that decades of neglecting and underfunding council homes present safety concerns beyond fire. In Tottenham’s Broadwater Farm estate, two blocks were revealed to be structurally unsound following ‘post-Grenfell’ safety checks. The blocks were vulnerable to collapse if there were an explosion or vehicle impact. Haringey Council’s response, too, has been speedy evacuation – this time in order to demolish both blocks. 200 households are being told they must permanently leave their homes before October, when their supplier intends to switch off gas supply. Questions from residents and campaigners have arisen about the council’s intentions, and their ability, to afford adequate rehousing whilst demolition takes place and to guarantee any new towers would be available for all the same residents, at the same rent.

What faces residents of demolished social housing? Experiences from other demolitions are instructive: the land usually sold to a private developer, and the number of social housing units built in their place slashed. Council tenants are often forced to leave their communities, enter the private rental sector or move into pricey, often inadequate and invariably insecure temporary accommodation as they await another council home that may never come. Jacob, a resident of one of the towers facing demolition and a member of its Residents Association explains: ‘Council tenants get lied to all the time. I believe that strengthening the blocks [to prevent collapse], is expensive but it would be cheaper [than demolition]. Because it’s been deliberately neglected for so long, there isn’t a groundswell of residents asking for the council to save ‘our lovely block’. But as people move people into small and temporary flats, I don’t think they’ll be happy.”

These impossible binds in which council tenants are caught, be they around heating costs or safety concerns, are not inevitable. Even as government, and the developers and contractors with which they work, continue to do next to nothing to address the housing crisis, they patently could. One recent breakthrough was the Mayor of London’s introduction of a requirement for resident ballots to be taken on estates facing regeneration, official guidance on which was released this summer. The move was a step forward in demonstrating avenues for genuine consultation and accountability, though it is has key loopholes, including one exemption for demolitions needed for ‘safety reasons’. At Broadwater Farm, it’s the timing of any such ballot that matters.

“They say they will have a ballot or consultation after everyone is moved out”, Jacob counters, “but residents will have already moved by then, and are likely to be out of the block for two years, probably even longer.” The process indeed works as a disincentive to residents interested in refurbishment as opposed to demolition. “If there is a ballot and residents vote for refurbishment, we won’t be entitled to the £6,000 payment we would if it were demolished.”. After the considerable costs of moving home, £6,000 is not a small sum to refuse. Jacob’s message to local authorities? “Don’t use safety concerns to displace residents”.

It is not a problem exclusive to Tottenham. Across the river in Peckham, the Ledbury Estate was condemned as unsafe last year. Southwark council’s response? Demolition. For Danielle, from the estate’s Action Group, this isn’t good enough. “We had been raising these safety concerns for years and they have to be taken seriously. But the job to convince everyone they’re doing the right thing by decanting us is the council’s responsibility”. It is difficult for residents to read Southwark council’s actions as motivated by concern for safety. Just last month it was revealed they claimed to have carried out post-Grenfell risk assessments on 174 Southwark blocks; in fact they had checked just eight. On the ballot question, for Southwark, the writing is on the wall. “The results from our consultation have just come through”, Danielle tells me “The majority of people want the towers saved – it is now a question of money. For the council, it should be a case of listening and taking seriously what residents want. They should have a say in what happens next.”

The disregard for residents that built towards the deadliest fire in living memory now persists even when councils aim, or claim, to be addressing safety issues. Residents are routinely ignored on safety and, when councils act, are being coerced into impossible decisions. Thousands face potentially lethal fire, deadly cold, structural collapse – or displacement and entirely insecure housing options. As Danielle says of Southwark’s response to Ledbury, ‘If this continues then people will not trust to raise safety concerns, they’ll be pushed away from wanting to make them.’ Some journalists who covered the Chalcots estate last year interviewed residents refusing to leave with an air of bemusement: why would anyone stay in a categorically dangerous home? If councils don’t listen to tenants and do their utmost to act in the interests of both their safety and their housing security, we are likely to see more of the same"

changedu5ername · 27/09/2018 08:26

Yes, there is a stigma and it has been present for a very long time.

I am lucky to live with a very good social housing provider. Not only is our property well maintained, but the housing association also provide free training for people who wish to take it; a robust tenants' voice system and counselling and support services.

The housing association provides homes for a wide range of people, including the elderly, and people with additional needs. Many of the people on our small estate are young families with at least one adult working.

The housing association was recently featured in a serial documentary. The documentary, however, focused on tenant problems/problem tenants who would make interesting story lines. This only perpetuates the myth that social housing is the province of anti-social people.

I have heard people blame the old Thatcher government for 'starting' the stigmatisation of social housing, perhaps as a way of driving forward the 'Right to Buy' agenda. However, the division between those who 'own' property and those who do not, is centuries old. It is, however, a division that needs re-considering as the prospect of individuals having to sell their homes to pay for care needs, and the reality of younger people being unable to secure a mortgage come into play.

HelenaDove · 27/09/2018 13:16

Great post Changed.

lynmilne65 · 27/09/2018 16:48

Before I got divorced I had no idea what Social Housing was!! Know plenty now 😑

Witchofwisteria · 27/09/2018 18:38

I live on a new build estate of about 350 houses. Part of the deal was that HA had to buy up 70 houses for affordable rent.

Some of the houses go for £500,000 which is expensive for the area (paying a premium for the new build) and some houses just 4 doors down are HA. Part of the plan was to mix up the estate.

I actually private rented a 2 bed flat on the estate for £725pcm. I got so sick and tired of watching the majority of the people in social housing with little gardens trash them. There is a reason there's a stereotype and it comes with car bumpers, old washing machines and bikes strewn all across their front lawns... these houses really do stick out like a sore thumb they seem to have no regard for anything!!!

I actually got the break of a lifetime as I called up the HA after i noticed one of their houses had been vacant for 3 months. Turns out they had evicted the tennant and couldn't find a suitable new tennant on the council register. In our area you have to earn less than £29,000 to be on their register but the rent for the 2 bed social houses was £675pcm, so it was incredibly hard for them to find someone who earnt less than 29k but could afford £675pcm. Luckily I was offered this house!

I now make a massive effort to keep the garden PRISTINE and covered in lovely flowers!

HelenaDove · 27/09/2018 21:51

Latest housing association supply stats: 8,741 homes started, lowest since stats series began in 2016 13% for social rent, 47% for affordable rent, 23% shared ownership, 17% for open market

www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/new-development-by-housing-associations-falls-58322

HelenaDove · 28/09/2018 16:23

Petition to bring housing associations under the FOI Act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/221577

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