Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say there is a stigma attached to social housing?

147 replies

longwayoff · 19/09/2018 10:23

Yes there is and its come about through the pretty much wholesale flogging off of social housing stock. Can Mrs May fix it as ago she says she will? Or is this simply early electioneering?

OP posts:
sanssherif · 20/09/2018 11:18

My friend got a council house as a single mum, on benefits. I could see she needed a house and got one. She now works and pays rent.
Next door to her, a couple both working also got a house. The dad is a builder and has extended to the rear, got a conservatory, done the drive and bought it.
No way should they have got a house if they can afford to do all of that. They were able to buy having 2 incomes and his building skills to have a doer upper.

1981fishgut · 20/09/2018 12:08

Also most people are unaware you can pass down council homes on your will so it may mean the council may not get it back for 100 years so often seeking it to the tenet is a better option

If I had kept my council house I would have passed it down to my we could of lived in it until we were In our 90s

sanssherif · 20/09/2018 14:10

I didn't know you could pass them down either

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:13

"On Boxing Day last year, Sarah Henley and her partner were asleep alongside their eight-month-old baby Rudi when they were roused by cries. Water was pouring through the bedroom light fitting on to their son, soaking his cot and their bed. It was exactly two years since the couple had reported water leaks over a stairwell in the shared-ownership block managed by London & Quadrant (L&Q). They claim nothing was done and the leaks then spread to their flat in the four-year-old building.

“In August 2017 we came home to find water pouring through the ceiling on to our bed, which is fixed and can’t be moved, and my son’s cot,” says Henley, who lives in the London borough of Southwark. “I then discovered that a report had been made six months previously but no action had been taken.”

The family complained again and scaffolding was twice erected but removed without any repairs being done. In December, water began soaking their bedroom again and the family was forced to move into a hotel and then a series of Airbnb rentals.
Once the biggest housing associations own 90% of social homes, tenants will lose out
Colin Wiles
Read more

“Because nobody could give us a timeline we had to completely re-arrange all our plans for our baby’s first Christmas and keep moving between temporary accommodation until the flat was habitable again,” says Henley, who was forced to move three times over eight days. Six days after they moved back into their flat, the leaks resumed and they spent three weeks shifting between Airbnb rentals and friends’ flats

L&Q is one of the country’s largest and most prosperous housing associations, accommodating 250,000 people across London and the south-east in homes built with the help of tax-payer subsidies.
Advertisement

In spite of – or because of – its rapid expansion, residents on some estates say they have spent years complaining of substandard living conditions and have had lengthy battles over repairs. All 43 reviews on the TrustPilot website mention neglected repairs and unheeding customer services.

Lisa Askew, a social tenant, launched a petition in 2016 to force L&Q to take action after two years of damp, mould, cracks and vermin in her home in Welling, Kent, which affected the health of her baby daughter. L&Q eventually moved her to another estate where, she says, problems have continued.

“I’ve been to hell and back with L&Q. They took two years to repair a leaking water tank in the living room, and our house appears to be suffering from subsidence with huge cracks in the walls,” she says. “I tripped over defective floorboards I had complained about, causing a hairline crack in my knee and soft tissue damage, and had to wear a cast for 12 weeks. We’re trapped in a house we don’t feel safe in because we can’t afford to rent privately or own a home of our own.”

L&Q says that a structural engineer was sent in May and concluded that the cracks were due to thermal movement rather than subsidence. It agreed to appoint another surveyor for a second opinion

On Henley’s estate, leaks that damaged four flats have been fixed, but residents have reported frequent and long-lasting breaks in the supplies of hot water and heating over the four years since the estate was built.

This month, in the height of the heatwave, the water supply was disconnected for a day without warning while repairs were carried out, and L&Q was obliged to reimburse Henley’s partner, Timothy O’Hara, for the cost of a pair of shoes ruined when he had to wade with his young son through raw sewage, which regularly floods the parking area.

In spite of the problems, the service charge has been increased by 18% for next year, some of it for services that have not been provided.
Right to buy puts 40% of ex-council homes in private rental - MPs' report
Read more

“Each time we have a meeting with L&Q we are promised that things will get fixed and dealt with and then nothing happens or things get worse,” says Graeme Legge, a resident who has called for help from his MP, the mayor of London and the housing ombudsman.

“Sometimes the hot water outages last as long as a month but the compensation we have been offered has been paltry and we have had to push for rebates when we’ve been charged for services we haven’t received

L&Q says: “We would like to apologise to residents for the ongoing issues that they are experiencing. Repairs to the roof were completed earlier this year and we are installing a new boiler system to address the hot water outages, which we expect to be complete by the end of next week. We are enlisting an external supplier to mend the sewage pipe in the car park as it is a specialist repair job. It is being dealt with as an urgent matter.”

It adds that service charges are based on an initial estimate of expenditure, which is later reviewed. “In the case of this year, the charges for this estate have increased because a caretaking charge has been added,” it says. “All residents have received additional refunds where services were compromised. We have and will continue to compensate residents on a case-by-case basis in relation to any issues still affecting them.”

Last year, Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, announced an £8bn partnership with the company to build 20,000 homes, in spite of denouncing its poor maintenance record in a BBC interview in 2010. A further 80,000 new homes are planned within the next 10 years.

When asked about resident dissatisfaction with L&Q, the mayor’s office said Khan had raised the issues with L&Q but has no remit to get involved in individual complaints

The mayor believes that no one should have to live in substandard conditions, and landlords must resolve any issues with their homes as a matter of urgency,” it says. “Unlike affordable housing investment, the regulation of social housing landlords has not been devolved to the GLA in London. Nonetheless, when housing management issues are brought to the mayor’s attention by residents, his team picks them up with councils and housing associations directly, as they have done in this case.”

Housing associations are not-for-profit organisations created in the 1960s to provide low-cost homes for workers. However, critics claim that standards and affordability are being compromised as they become increasingly commercialised. Figures compiled by the Times show that nearly 100,000 homes built for social rent at less than 50% of the market rate have been sold off or converted for higher rents since 2012. The Chartered Institute of Housing predicts another 80,000 social rent homes will disappear by 2020.

Meanwhile, housing association chiefs’ pay has soared, with an average salary of £166,205 in 2017. Last year, L&Q’s chief executive, David Montague, received a basic salary of £344,000, making him the fifth-highest paid in the sector

This year, in spite of a slight cut, he will take home £408,564, including a bonus and cash in lieu of pension, yet residents complain he has ignored all requests to engage with them over their years of unresolved problems.

L&Q says that executive pay is set by a governance and remuneration committee and reflects “value for money, current market levels, and the importance of talent retention for an organisation that is large, complex and commercially driven to deliver social goals”.

Government cuts have helped drive the sector into ever more commercial ventures. In 2012 the budget that subsidised social housing was reduced by 60% and in 2015 George Osborne, the then chancellor, imposed a 1% annual rent cut for four years, only a year after committing to a decade of inflation-linked rises. This reduced the income of housing associations, many of which fund social projects using the profits from building, selling and renting full-price homes.
Mayor to subsidise 'naked' homes solution to London housing crisis
Read more

Last year 40% of L&Q’s £1bn turnover came from rents and sales at market rates. Although it is one of the most prolific builders in the sector, only half of the 100,000 homes it plans in the next decade will be what it describes as “genuinely affordable”

n the past financial year it made a record operating surplus of £420m and it says it increased spending on repairs and maintenance from £120m to £173m.

Many of its residents have yet to see the benefits. Henley, who has spent £810 on emergency accommodation, has been offered £720 in expenses by L&Q and nothing to compensate for the stress and inconvenience. She is planning to take her case to a small claims court.

“The leaks have been fixed but the security gates keep breaking down, we are regularly without hot water and, until now, L&Q has blamed the sewage leak in the car park on residents putting wet wipes down the loo,” she says. “It’s hard enough living and working in London with a new baby, without having to move frequently and endure the endless admin to get problems fixed."

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:14

www.cfoi.org.uk/2018/06/parliament-to-debate-bill-that-would-bring-public-service-contractors-housing-associations-and-other-bodies-under-foi/
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Wed 13-Jun-18 20:51:48

The bill would also make housing associations subject to FOI. The problems caused by the current lack of any right of access to include:

54 out of 61 housing associations refused to supply their fire risk assessments to Inside Housing magazine in 2017. [3]
a tenant was refused information about the cause of a fire on their premises. [4]
a housing association refused to say whether potentially toxic lead pipes were used in the property’s water supply. [5]
another housing association refused to reveal the electricity bill which led a tenant to be charged £1,200 to cover the cost of 6 communal light bulbs. [6]

Other bodies that would be brought under the FOI Act by the bill include electoral registration officers, returning officers and Local Safeguarding Children Boards.

The bill would give the Information Commissioner new powers to obtain information from contractors when investigating complaints and make them subject to the offence applying to public authorities which deliberately destroy requested information to prevent its disclosure. It would also close a loophole which blocks such prosecutions unless they are brought within 6 months of the offence occurring.

lovelyupnorth · 20/09/2018 14:16

having walked round a number of "council estates" in a local town - so many people don't give a shit about where they live - you can tell the HA/ Social housing ones -all the same letterbox and doors - and pretty much without fail all shitholes. if people can't look after where they live then i'm not surpirsed there's a stigma attached

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:18

some more background.

www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16596905.toryglen-residents-fury-over-botched-home-repairs/
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Sun 26-Aug-18 17:05:02

"ON every visit to Kerrycroy Avenue and surrounding streets, more and more residents wanted to speak out about problems with their homes.
One couple had to have their house roughcasted four times before it was of accepted standard
And, in one instance, repairs had to be made when the flue from their boiler was sealed in by workmen, causing a potential hazard.

One block of flats had scaffolding erected that blocked their patio doors – used as main entrances to the homes.

READ MORE: 'Our two-year hell' - Glasgow housing group's catalogue of serious failures exposed

For most, they could go out their back doors... but one woman in a wheelchair was left trapped in her home.

In another block of flats, blue plastic was used to cover residents’ windows
While they were told this would be for a few days, the plastic was there for five months, meaning they couldn’t see out and had to have their lights on even in daytime.

One man told the Evening Times he’d come home from work to find two workmen having a physical fight in his front garden
This resulted in police and an ambulance being called – and further delays to his upgrade works.

READ MORE: Toryglen flats saga continues with residents claiming 'turmoil'

Residents claimed they had no notice of the works until Thistle employees visited their homes to say they had to pay £2129.10 towards costs.

Some said they were visited on a Tuesday and told they had to pay up by the Thursday or work wouldn’t go ahead.

One man had sewage flood his home six times

In another property, an object was dropped from scaffolding and plunged through a patio – giving a narrow escape to the owner.

A group of residents set up a website to detail the problems they were having and Thistle bosses reported them to the police

In another incident, a resident contacted Thistle to ask for a workman to repair a damaged entry system and was visited by police with an accusation of vandalism instead.

The Evening Times has repeatedly asked how much the project costs have now run to but neither E-on nor Thistle will divulge the answer"

YeTalkShiteHen · 20/09/2018 14:25

Our last house was ex LA and we didn’t change the doors. There was nothing wrong with them so didn’t see the point in spending money for nothing.

There are good council estates and shite ones. Just as there are good private estates and shite ones. We now live on a private estate and the street behind ours is really run down and not well maintained. No SH at all. So rundown houses are by no means exclusive to SH.

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:30

THIS DOCUMENT. Myatts Field North refurb.

www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/research/pfisocialhousing/MFN_PFI_Refurb_Experiences_Report.pdf
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Fri 14-Jul-17 22:10:33

Residents were told to remove their pets, but no compensation was offered to cover the
costs involved.
 No consideration was given to residents who worked night shifts.
 Workers used electricity paid for by of residents, without offering compensation.
 Doors were left open and residents were able to wander in unchallenged by workers
who did not know them.
 Quality alterations that residents had already made to their homes were ripped out to
make way for inferior alternatives.
 Supposedly completed electrical rewiring was found to be substandard and occasionally
dangerous.
 Supposedly completed pipe works and its housing were found to be substandard.
 In some homes, odd sized radiators and kitchen unit doors had been fitted.
 Flooding in one home had been caused by an unsupervised apprentice.
 Households were left overnight without running water or a toilet.
 At least one resident was left without electricity for a whole weekend.
 Some workers were found to be abusive, bullying and inconsiderate, especially towards
elderly or otherwise vulnerable residents

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:31

"Hodkinson carried out a qualitative survey of 14 homes refurbished by Rydon that had been the subject of a huge number of complaints. Showers were fitted next to electric fans. A toilet was installed so close to a wall that you could only sit on it sideways. Some households went for days without electricity and weeks without cooking facilities. Cupboards were fitted with wrongly size doors. Tenants who complained reported that they were treated dismissively. One remembered the site supervisor saying to him, “It ain’t Chelsea, mate.” Regenter’s out-of-hours emergency line linked to the wrong database, so callout engineers weren’t available. The striking thing was how long problems could drag out: one family’s flat was flooded in January 2014, and repairs weren’t even scheduled till September. Two years later, their flat still hadn’t been fully repaired and redecorated. Even at the most straightforward level, the work wasn’t done to a decent standard.

When approached for comment, Rydon said that since the complaints were made, three years ago, attempts have been made to remedy the problems. They said the comments were not reflective of most of the residents, and that there was a good level of satisfaction among the residents now.

For tenants with more complicated requirements, the situation was worse. The Cifuentes family, one of whom used a wheelchair, was left without ramps, hoists or any means of escape in a fire, and without a lock on the front door. Repairs were so slow and haphazard that, at one point, the family had to move out for over a month, and the disabled member could only have his needs met by going into a respite unit – whereupon they were threatened with losing their carer’s allowance, their disability allowance and their car."

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:38

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/grenfell-vulnerable-people-women-domestic-violence-refuge
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Mon 31-Jul-17 18:38:27

"On Sunday evening I sat outside a pub in west London with a group of women, some of whom were crying. A man on a nearby table asked us why we were there, presuming a birthday party gone wrong, or a messy breakup had led to the scene. We were vague and cagey with our answer: “We live in a domestic violence refuge and we’re facing immediate homelessness and danger, so called a journalist for help” isn’t generally a great conversation starter.

Just after midnight that morning, the ceiling had collapsed in one woman’s bedroom: mercifully, she was visiting friends that night. The fact she has a condition that puts her at high risk of a heart attack doesn’t bear thinking about. For two weeks prior in the refuge, the sprinkler system had been leaking heavily: the women showed me the flooding they endured – ankle deep in some bedrooms, and wallpaper bulging with stale water.

Finally, the leak caused the ceiling to fall in. They rang the fire brigade and the housing association that owns the house and the charity that runs the shelter service. When the emergency services arrived, a firefighter told them that if anyone turned on the power, the entire building would go up in flames. Removing a plug from the wall, he swore as water poured from the socket. They were left with torches and barely managed to sleep: seven women, and six children between the ages of two and seven, crowded into the communal living room.

Their children are in play schemes in west London, where they’re building confidence after fleeing abuse and violence
Then matters worsened. The women were phoned individually by the housing association and told they’d be put in temporary accommodation – with no guarantee of when they would return – in Barking, 15 miles away: an hour away on public transport, even though the women’s doctors, counsellors, key workers and friends are all in west London. The children are in play schemes in west London, where they’re building confidence and making friends after fleeing abuse and violence. But worse: some of the women have ex-partners in Barking and east London, men who have told them that if they ever saw them again, they would murder them. One of the mothers was promised that if her husband ever had the opportunity he’d lock her and her son in the house and burn it to the ground.

Understandably terrified, they all refused, and were told there would be nothing else offered. By doing this, they were putting themselves at risk of being declared “intentionally homeless”, meaning they would be out on the streets with the housing association refusing to help.

The women are all intelligent, articulate, educated and speak multiple languages: model citizens on paper to the current government. And yet, because of their situation, they felt they were “scrabbling in the dirt, at the bottom of society”. They repeatedly said they felt like dirt, telling me I was wrong when I objected to them describing themselves as “scum”. They were treated as such by a system that bullies and harasses them and puts them in danger. Time and again I’ve heard near-identical tales of people having their humanity, dignity and worth stripped away due to homelessness and fleeing violence. Needing housing makes you extremely vulnerable: too often, being in need and having to rely on councils, housing associations and shelters in turn means you are treated like a criminal.

'It’s social cleansing': the 93-year-old fighting east London demolitions
Read more
The women lived in the same borough Grenfell Tower stands: to reach them, my bus had to pass the blackened shell. For a period it felt as though the tragedy had heightened public understanding of why housing is genuinely a life or death issue and brought shame on the nation, that we fail some of our most vulnerable time and again.

But the same situation continues to play out time and again: these women were at risk in the house, and at risk in the far-flung accommodation they’d been offered. Desperate to stay together in the small friendship group they’d forged, they had decided to fight: many others would have accepted the offer, and been placed in danger as a result.

With press attention, advice from lawyers who gave their time for free on Sunday night, and pressure from the MP Jess Phillips, whose experience in the domestic violence sector was invaluable, we were able to get assurances that the women would be housed locally until repairs are completed. But for every one of these experiences, many people won’t have a happy ending. Grenfell Tower should have shocked us into treating people with empathy, compassion and care when they’re homeless or in danger: instead, it looks like business as usual"

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 14:45

www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/aug/18/social-housing-residents-tenants-badly-treated-grenfell-ledbury-modern-britain
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Fri 18-Aug-17 18:56:54

"Following the news in 2017n has been like riding an out of control rollercoaster. As soon as one story dissipates, another rears its head
with little chance to analyse and contextualise anything that occurs.
Take the news about housing: after the shocking tragedy of Grenfell Tower, an eyewatering number of tower blocks were revealed to have similarly unsafe cladding as the government fire tested samples sent in by councils and housing associations.

May orders national inquiry after 100% failure rate in high-rise cladding tests
Read more
The statistics caused huge alarm: the Chalcotts Estate in Camden was evacuated when it was discovered the panels fixed to the new-build towers were the same as those fitted to Grenfell Tower, which are believed to have contributed to the speed and scale of the blaze. Scarcely had politicians and the public begun to discuss what this meant for the culture of housing and redevelopment across Britain, when another story broke.

The Ledbury estate in Peckham was found to be at significant risk of collapse in the case of a gas explosion. Believing the residents to be in immediate danger, Southwark council began evacuating.

In 1968, in Ronan Point tower in Newham, east London, four people
died and 17 were injured when a gas explosion caused load bearing walls to collapse as the bolts holding together large prefabricated panels
buckled. The image of the tower was stark. From the roof to the floor,
an entire corner had fallen in, like dominos. That the fatality count
was as low as four was a miracle in itself. The collapse caused huge
concern for tower block residents, and the system then used to join the
concrete panelling was outlawed and building regulations changed to
ensure tower block architecture was safer and more robust.

The Ledbury estate was constructed using the same method as Ronan Point but residents were told that the problem had been fixed.

Southwark commissioned a fire safety inspection after residents raised concerns following the Grenfell Tower inferno, and it was discovered that, somehow, the flawed construction method had never been rectified. So for decades, the tower was at risk of the same fate as Ronan Point. It’s unclear how this oversight occurred. But a similar tale emerges: residents had been complaining of safety risks for years before this life-threatening danger was revealed.

Housing costs, supply and a dearth of social housing are cited often as the main issues in the UK’s housing crisis. But how we treat residents and tenants is a stain on modern Britain. The Ledbury and Grenfell residents were repeatedly dismissed when they raised concerns.

People constantly contact me panicked when they are turned away illegally by council housing offices or have issues with damp, leaks, cockroaches and rodents in their homes, endangering their children’s health. In the past few weeks, several women have kept me updated with their treatment after the roof of their Notting Hill Housing Trust domestic violence refuge collapsed. The women had complained for weeks that the sprinkler system was leaking into the ceiling, with little response. When the ceiling collapsed, they were told they’d be moved from Kensington to Barking, where several of their violent ex-partners live.

Since, some of them have been in temporary accommodation. One was placed in a hostel staffed entirely by men and when she caught someone photographing her
through a window, found the manager of the hostel and the housing staff at Kensington and Chelsea council dismissive until a police officer contacted the council on her behalf and pressured the department to move her to more appropriate accommodation.

In the meantime, the stress had caused her post-traumatic stress disorder to
escalate to the point where she was admitted to a psychiatric unit. Prior to the roof collapse she’d felt close to recovery.

Housing associations and councils must accept they have a duty to uphold human dignity and treat residents as they would their friends and neighbours rather than like human detritus. Meeting housing association chief executives, I’m struck by the earnest way in which they speak of their work and how they argue we need to give homes to all who need it and remove the stigma social tenants face. Yet the tales their tenants tell do not match their words.

Some councils are rotten, and so too are some housing associations. Staff on the frontline must do more to genuinely listen and act on the complaints and needs of residents, and less on honing the corporate exterior gloss"

AamdC · 20/09/2018 14:48

Thats just not true of all council houses @1981fishgut when we gor our house it was made very clear thete could just one succession of tenancy , as its a joint tenancy between myself and dh if i die before him he succesds. to a single tenancy amd vice a versa we cant contnue to pass it to our kids etc

Notacluewhatthisis · 20/09/2018 15:02

AamdC technically you can't here.

But as I posted. The daughter is now a main tenant. The dad passed away. So although the mum can't gift the house in her will, as a main tenant the daughter will be able to continue to live there.

LolaPickle · 20/09/2018 20:17

No I don't think there is a stigma at all.

HelenaDove · 20/09/2018 20:20

Really Lola? Perhaps you should read the comments under the articles ive just posted here about the Plymouth flats fire.

Or any of the social housing threads on MN.

BusySittingDown · 21/09/2018 17:50

BusySittingDown how did the people viewing know it was social housing opposite?

Sorry @SoyDora, I missed your comment as I didn’t come back to the thread after I had posted.

There are still houses being built on the estate and there’s a site plan near the entrance which marks out which houses are which and it marks out the social housing. They are marked in red, I think. It doesn’t mark out the shared ownership though, which quite a few of them are Confused.

BusySittingDown · 21/09/2018 20:57

Actually, my mistake - I’ve just been to have a look and it’s marked as “affordable housing” but some is social housing and some is shared ownership. As it’s a new build estate then there has to be some social housing.

The viewers must have assumed that it was all social housing. They never actually spoke to us about it - when the Estate Agent gave us feedback they said that “the social housing had put them off.”

HelenaDove · 22/09/2018 03:09

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=4724