To be slightly fed up of white people doing this

[TacoLover]

Every time there is a thread discussing racism, there will be a mention of white privilege. Cue a flurry of hurt posters writing essays about how stupid the idea of white privilege is and how it doesn't exist, because their lives are so hard and they grew up on a few pieces of bread and a Red Bull

This really gets on my tits because after seeing this shit time and time again, THIS ISN'T WHAT WHITE PRIVILEGE MEANS. It doesn't mean your life isn't hard, it doesn't mean you don't face barriers in your life. What it does mean is the barriers in your life will never or hardly ever be a result of the colour of your skin. It doesn't mean you live in a mansion because you're white.

Just needed to get that out,sorry. I'm sure my only replies will be white people telling me how racist I am for only targeting them(Even though this is something that only white people do)

KennDodd the difference is that if you are white working class, there is a point where - for some people - you can escape your circumstances, and "pass".

I'm white, from what is now known euphemistically as a "chaotic home", left school at 16, have had a productive but quite disreputable life, but since I've got a lah-di-dah accent (an accident of geography, not class), I am always assumed to be middle class and well-educated and generally terribly respectable. (I am well-educated now, but it didn't happen when I was young.) My elder brother, who is Black, turned out to be the most respectable one in the family, pillar of the community, successful award-winning businessman, etc etc. But he is the one who gets funny looks if he walks into the wrong place in the wrong part of town with his white wife. Doesn't matter how well he's done - and believe me, he had a hell of a lot to overcome in the family background stakes - or how lah-di-dah his accent is, he will never stop being Black, and people treating him accordingly.

Deliberately haven’t RTFT I haven’t got it in me to argue today.

OP YADNBU at all.

All white people have white privilege.

Whether we choose to recognise it or not is sadly a different story.

I read on another thread, a black woman answered a racist twat asking what she expected them to do about changing racism.

The response was, quite simply, listen and be the change.

BE THE CHANGE.

The fact that so many white people have felt it their place to say, "White privilege exists" or "White people doesn't exist" kinda feeds into the OP's point. Thanks for the confirmation but I'm pretty sure we knew that already. It's almost as if for white people things only exist if THEY can see it, have a tangible example and get it. If they have a counter example or are just a bit razzed at someone typing the word "white" to apply to "white" people, then: it doesn't exist! Oh and riddle me this I know a rich black doctor! Ha! mind-blown!
If you are white. You don't 'get' it. You might be able to theorise, emote and rail against it. But you don't get to deny it, define it or have a say on what it is.

I know I've benefitted because of the colour of my skin. When I've been up against black candidates for a job, I've honestly thought I stood a better chance because of my colour. I knew that my colour gave me an unconscious edge in the minds of interviewers.

It would be ridiculous to claim that white privileged does not exist. How can it not when our whole history and presence have been built around the idea of white superiority. We must now do our best to right this injustice.

As for class vs race. Your class is not a physical attribute and all races fall into the various classes. Some are more concentrated in the bottom than the top. The class divide will show that the distribution on a race basis proves that racism is much more a problem than classism. Ethnic minorities are more likely to be concentrated in the working class and in low wage jobs.

It is possible to move up and down the class spectrum but you cannot change your race. It is an identifiable physical attribute. Something you can do nothing about. Being disadvantaged because of it is beyond wrong.

Fact is that even when black people are successful, educated, well off , many people have a negative perception of them that can only be because of colour. Why was my baby described as a gangster? His father isn't a gangster or a criminal. We're not poor. We're educated and employed. We've never been in trouble with the police. So, what made that woman single my child out as being a 'gangster'?

Sorry I didn't mean to suggest black children and Chinese children are the same, should have used paragraphs.

Chinese child might well do well DESPITE the subconscious racism.

I wonder if the racism directed at Chinese children isn't the same? In that their teachers at school will know the stats on Chinese high performance and so might have different (unconscious) expectations of them. Chinese children may come into school with the expectation that they will be well behaved and academically bright and be treated accordingly?

And as I said in my earlier post, I absolutely do see that white privilege exists.

Yanbu but I think it can be a difficult concept for some people to undersyamd.
I have had this conversation with someone who is white working class living in poverty with absolutely nothing where three generations of their family have been out of work for decades in an old ex miner village where the mines have shut down and the town is a dying ghost town.

Although they are of course privileged to be white I can definitely understand why someone in that position might not feel very privileged.

This topic reminds me of what I saw on Twitter the other day. A post about that god awful Serena Williams cartoon and its racist connotations and then a bunch of white faces posting 'That's not racist' underneath. I despaired.

KennDodd the difference is that if you are white working class, there is a point where - for some people - you can escape your circumstances, and "pass".

Yes I agree. It's just that white working class boys seem to struggle the most (at school at least) to escape those circumstances and do well academically. I don't know how they then go on to navigate the world compared to their black peers. They may then do better as adults (or not) because of WP, I don't know the numbers on that. I do think money (class) is the biggest handlicap people have.

I do think money (class) is the biggest handlicap people have.

Actually, it is a disadvantage that you can (if very lucky) throw off. It might not be with you and your children for life.

How has a thread about racism become about white working class boys?

I think this is the point OP was trying to make.

There is a time to discuss the struggles faced by white working class boys. But a thread about racism and denial of white privilege isn’t it.

Surely indigenous Chinese and Japanese people experience the same privilege in their own countries though. I imagine would act similarly if you decided to challenge them on that, too.

Surely indigenous Chinese and Japanese people experience the same privilege in their own countries though. I imagine would act similarly if you decided to challenge them on that, too

If you're from, say, Korea, China, India etc....basically, any country that isn't white and western, yes, you are already disadvantaged in Japan. If you are from certain cultural Japanese backgrounds, as Japanese, in Japan, yes you are disadvantaged. If you are a woman in Japan, yes you are disadvantaged. Basically, mainland Japanese males are supremely privileged by the pure basis of their birth and sex. But they, I would say, would be more aware of their privilege - they KNOW that women are "lesser". They KNOW that Koreans are "lesser", etc. They KNOW full well certain "types" will get jobs etc over others. The difference is that white people are far, far, far and beyond more naive in their ignorance of their privilege. It's good to have discussions like these - it helps to bring more empathy and understanding. It can be hard to hear but I think it's such a necessary topic that needs to be kept in the spot light.

So, what made that woman single my child out as being a 'gangster'?
She was an ignorant, silly, racist individual.

So what if Chinese or Japanese people experience privilege in China or Japan? That excuses what exactly? What is the "therefore" you are alluding to? Therefore it is perfectly okay for white people in the UK to perpetuate injustice and turn a blind eye to that injustice? Or is it that you are saying white privilege is justifiable. I really don't get what you are getting at Babycham.

Lovetherisingsun, racists are not only the people who shout racist abuse or say obviously racist things. The most dangerous type of racism is the one that hides in plain sight. Nothing overt, but the unconscious biasness and the refusal to tackle institutional racism. But perhaps I'm wrong, the most dangerous is surely those who deny racism of that form exist. Those who refuse to listen to the victims, deciding that their whiteness gives them every right to be judge and jury on whether ethnic minorities experience what they say they experience. Racism only exist if we say so and is not based on the experiences of ethnic minorities. After all, they have a chip on their shoulder, like playing the race card, love being offended, and there's far too much political correctness.

Lovetherisingsun, racists are not only the people who shout racist abuse or say obviously racist things

I didn't say they were?? I said "The difference is that white people are far, far, far and beyond more naive in their ignorance of their privilege". I wasn't talking about racism, I was talking, as I mentioned, about privilege.

Yanbu op!

I was once arguing with a white person about white privileged and he just couldn’t get his head around intersectionality.

Anyway, I found this article to send him which I think makes some very good points about why it’s so difficult:
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7183710

Mindful of the fact that, as a white woman, I have no right to decide what is and isn’t racist, so this is just a theory that I’m happy to be corrected on if I’m wrong.

I think the white people who do minimise, dismiss, ignore and belittle the black people telling them about racism and how it affects them are exceptionally dangerous racists.

Because they deny the existence of racism, they refuse to admit they are part of the problem, and you can’t change someone’s views if they don’t admit to holding them.

Interesting that people citing their experiences are criticised for taking offence, or dismissed for whining.

It seems whenever people experience negative consequences of not resembling Barbie or Ken, some people will always choose to believe it's their fault. I suppose it's easier than thinking about the real causes though.

Obviously white privilege exists.

All kinds of privilege exist. White privilege especially and pervasively so.

White privilege especially and pervasively so.

Only if you think in blunt terms, it correlates quite heavily into wealth and class in the UK, its an American ID pol term that can be more destructive than actually "opening up debate"

Lovetherisingsun, I was not critising your point. Just adding to your point.

What really fucks me of when white people try to fucking tell me racism is only a issue for me now brexit has come

Doesn’t matter how my times I say the 80s and 90s are far worse

So, what made that woman single my child out as being a 'gangster'?

She was an ignorant, silly, racist individual

Yes but it's bigger than just that. It's about society's perception too. That my son is even as an innocent baby born to working, educated, well off parents who aren't criminals is perceived first and foremost as a gangster...ok, one person said it...how many others think it but don't say it? How many of them are working in the justice system or education or hr?

What really fucks me of when white people try to fucking tell me racism is only a issue for me now brexit has come

How ironic. Many of the black people I know have suffered racist abuse from EU migrants who come from countries where it is not so socially unacceptable to be overtly racist.