To be gutted and annoyed that DD did a degree and now works in Tesco?

[whitman]

DD is 21 and also pretty miserable. She has just had to up her hours at Tesco. She worked there part time while being a student and absolutely loved it for a part time job (only working 1 6 hour shift a week). She is in her 3rd full time week and hates it. She is really upset, to the point of tears. We all told her that she would be better doing a vocational degree (one that actually let to a job).

She applied for lots and lots of jobs that didn't even require a degree but definitely matched the sort of thing she studied.

She then applied to be an RSPCA officer, but unfortunately struggled at interview.

She did Biology with Animal Behaviour.

She doesn't have much work experience honestly.

It's just a shame that she spent all them years and money to end up doing the job she was doing before the degree.

She's very upset and is pretty miserable all the time. Is there hope for the future?

As an employer in the animal sector DoginaTent has it bang on. Any job we advertise has hundreds of applications. We get multiple applications from individuals in their 30s and 40s from individuals who are prepared to take really significant pay drop to retrain in their dream job.
Life experience and resilience are by far and away the key things we are looking for. Tesco will be giving her this life experience.
Why are we looking for this on a daily basis my reception team deal with people who don't see why they should have to pay, people who are upset, angry with themselves or just plain scared they take this out on our whole team. Times that by a hundred fold for what the RSPCA officers and collection agents deal with ( a sizeable number of their recruits are ex-army for a reason)
Jobs in this industry mostly pay less than Tesco.
To stand out she needs to show that she has gained experience of dealing with difficult customers.
Has she considered employment in an animal division of the uniformed forces.
Our most recent apprentice was the senior manager in a large pub for one of the big chains was on track to move to area manager etc. Took a big pay drop for dream job. Benefit for us very used to dealing with arsey customers, extensive stock control experience and used to working anti-social hours.

She may do well to contact the Young Women's Trust, they support (as the name suggests) young women with CV writing, interview prep and coaching. It really helped me!

Could she look for a funded PhD and pursue the academic route (provided she got at least a 2:1)? I know of a couple of people who did similar and who are now academic scientists in the area of animal behaviour.

This is insanely competitive unless she desperately wants to do it. Going into academia right now is a really, really tough market, and even if she were successful she'd be doing short-term jobs for years after she graduated. Academics often don't get permanent jobs until their early or mid 30s.

My friend graduated in 2012 with a biology and marine biology degree and promptly had to go back to college to retrain as a vet nurse because she couldn't get a job. I'm sure it will be fine in the end but she may need further training or experience somewhere practical.

I've been thinking about this a bit. Firstly, this 'post-degree working out what to do next' phase is really strange and difficult. It's normal for it to feel directionless, unstructured and lonely, after knowing what you're doing, what's expected of you to get it and being surrounded by people doing the same thing, for so many years.

The more I think about people I've worked with in professional jobs, the more I think everybody should have a stint in retail, or other customer-facing job, to hone their people skills, teamwork and understanding of what it is to work with customers. Lots of clever, capable people can be quite poor at those soft-skills and customer focus and it can make them really difficult employees who don't progress as a result. She will already have a lot to say about teamwork, problem-solving, 'when something went wrong and how you dealt with it' (classic interview question).

But, if possible, could she drop to part-time, or irrregular hours, so she can fit in regular volunteering? That is the way in to the sort of jobs you're talking about. e.g. If she wants to go down the conservation route, she should volunteer with the local Wildlife Trust and/or at an RSPB reserve, get involved with the local mammal group, bird club etc (will be run by knowledgeable volunteers and do things at weekends and evenings) to gain experience. Plus, she can get to know some of the staff that way and talk to them about how careers work - informal mentoring. And, if she's keen and capable, they'll have her in mind if anything suitable comes up.

Thinking of people I know who've ended up in good, well-paid 'career' jobs and become comfortably off in their 30s, other than those with a well-defined career path (law, medicine etc):

• More than one worked in fairly soul-detroying retail and admin jobs for a few years (in smaller outfits than Tesco, without the internal opportunities that has), while plugging away at applications, until they got their break into something with career potential. They did that by developing skills in their spare time and really working at their interview technique and preparation. Job interviews are very different from interviews for educational courses. You can't just appear capable and willing to learn, for most jobs. Your task is to convince the interview panel that they can have confidence in you to walk in and do the job capably from day 1 and that you've thought about how you're going to do that.

• One did retail-type jobs for a few years, then developed an area of interest and part-time business, did a postgrad course in that area and from that went into a graduate trainee scheme with a big company.

• Some have started at the bottom in admin / IT type things, developed skills and become more useful, specialised and better paid.

• In the vocational type careers you've mentioned, so satisfying but not generally well-paid, it's been all about volunteering, post-grad qualifications, networking and being in the right place at the right time. Also, being willing to move around the country for jobs.

Good luck to her!

Finishing uni is a depressing time. You live in this bubble of friends, uni life and endless potential and then it ends

I agree with that. I was a (very) mature student with plently of life experience and even I felt flat and sort of lost when I left uni. Life goes from an institutionalisted, highly focussed deadline environment with peers, to back out in the "real world". My equally mature class mates felt the same.

If she's dedicated around animal careers... Why doesn't she look at training to be a vet as a post graduate...you need to have a science degree.
There appears to be some bursary? To apply for...

www.rvc.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/bvetmed-graduate-accelerated#panel-degree-in-addition-to-g-c-s-es

And she'll be earning a professional salary rather than keep interning /interviewing for roles where there is a surfeit of volunteers..

21 is so young, she has loads of time to establish a career.

Talk to her about different career options and maybe she can see a career adviser to talk through options.

There are lots of careers that are accessible with a Biology degree and she just needs to work on interview technique.

Alternatively she could go into further study e.g. she could take an MSc in Zoology or study to become a veterinary nurse or even a Vet (5+ yrs extra study though!).

The NHS are crying out for people. Advertising at the moment. There are so many areas she could work in. Sorry if someone has already suggested this. Haven’t read the whole thread.

I'll just throw in, that the most well-off people involved in animal and conservation charities (probably many charities) are the older volunteers - the ones who did something more profitable for their job and pursued this as their hobby.

Some of them are amongst the most knowledgeable and useful people involved.

It's worth bearing in mind that there's no need to give up an interest, a passion, or stop developing knowledge and expertise, just because it's not your job or career. You always have the option to change career later too.

Also that there are valuable voluntary roles, like being a charity trustee (they're often crying out for people with other expertise, like accountancy, HR or IT), or expert volunteer (e.g. people who do bird-ringing, botanists etc, who may also do the odd bit of consultancy work in that area), that make a real contribution.

If she's dedicated around animal careers... Why doesn't she look at training to be a vet as a post graduate...

Because becoming a Vet is highly competitive and something you usually prepare for for several years - including extensive work experience prior to application
Because 4 additional years at uni as a graduate will cost her £100k+ And her earning potential will still be relatively limited.
Because if she’s struggling with emotional resilience in her current situation, entering a profession with one of the highest drop out rates and suicide rates is probably not a great idea.

As you are in Essex, are you anywhere near EHPPS. The Pitsea horse sanctuary? They may be worth volunteering with, especially with winter coming up.

My other tip, for CV-ing, would be to get other people- especially someone in her chosen industry to tidy up her CV and show her a covering letter. I found it a lot easier to format a CV with one to work off and knowing what to put. My most recent cover letter was borrowed from a chum. I tried using hers as a guide to draft one & went to bits and so I played around with her document to make it mine. It reads completely differently but I found it easier to use a "frame" .

Is she on linked in? You can set it to private mode. I use it to snoop on CVs & better my own. Linked In skills especially!! Keep a list of ones that could apply to her and review it regularly. I have a word document with them all saved and decide from there.

Sorry if it's all obvious but I honestly didn't have a bloody clue to start.

My other tip, for CV-ing, would be to get other people- especially someone in her chosen industry to tidy up her CV and show her a covering letter. I found it a lot easier to format a CV with one to work off and knowing what to put.

The risk here is in thinking that a good CV and cover letter is a one-off. You need to review and adjust your CV for every application, and every application needs a fresh cover letter.

It's little things that make a difference. For example, putting Vocational/Voluntary experience above your Educational Qualifications if that's where your strengths lie in terms of meeting the job specification. Not following the standard format you'll find online. And don't underestimate how powerful a good Interests section is in terms of making the cut, too often it's skipped over and the result is you look not very interesting at all.

We need someone for a live-in position: celiahammond.org/index.php/about-us/job-vacancies/38-live-in-animal-care-assistant-in-east-sussex

If by RSPCA officer you mean inspector, that is a tough job. It's not just dealing with the animals, it's the people! People who are aggressive, criminals, animal hoarders. People who are ill and get overwhelmed. Colleagues of mine have done jobs where they were accompanied by armed police, jobs where they were trying to remove animals and having horses chased at them, had dogs set on them. Have had to euthanise animals. It's not an easy job, and while I won't say it would be beyond every 21 year old, it would be a big ask for a first job. So don't despair on that one.

Volunteering could really help. But really she needs to stop panicking about being at Tesco forever and think about what she wants to do, then make her plans. I did bank work at a hospital, then Office Angels, then the Civil Service, then got into animal welfare (not the RSPCA in my case). It's all experience, all grist to the mill.

And her silly sister needs to stop undermining her. Perhaps you need to have a word about that one.

I work in conservation (actually got into it quite accidentally in my case!). The people I work with have worked there decades - it's super competitive to get into and once people work there (in my place at least) they tend not to leave. Makes it very hard for new graduates to join. She needs to volunteer. I did shit loads of volunteering in loads of different fields, plus have a masters degree. Still took me absolutely ages to get going in my field.

The bonus of volunteering is you actually figure out what you really want to do as you get to try lots of roles and different fields. I'm now doing something very different to what I first went for when graduated as I realised that didn't really suit me.

If by RSPCA officer you mean inspector, that is a tough job. It's not just dealing with the animals, it's the people! You're so right Spudlet. I'm not with the RSPCA but I do the same job (voluntary position) and I have to deal with dangerous and threatening people, and with abuse and I was even once kidnapped.

I spend a lot of time hanging round the bins of tough estates at midnight, and similar environments, in order to do my job. As a 21 year old I definitely wouldn't have been able to handle it. I find it hard to handle now.

Dealing with the people is incredibly tough. If it were just a matter of dealing with the animals it would be a totally different (and infinitely better) job.

@DogInATent- I do this with every job move so didn't bother to state that as it seemed obvious. I always get someone higher up to look cvs & letters over or give me a new example to play about with. Much easier for them to be objective and keep it on track within chosen field. Certainly as a newbie this really helped me feel a lot less clueless.

Once I started to view the whole thing as bullshit-lingo bingo like every other test, it became less daunting.

Does she know anyone who is doing well in her desired career? To get in touch with and ask for advice and mentorship?

My advice would be that she volunteers her arse off alongside her job in the area she’s interested in. And get some good advice on how to write applications and ace interviews. There’s definitely a real art to it and it’s not something that comes naturally to most people.

It's not obvious to everyone though @DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops , people keep on submitting the boilerplate CVs and covering letters as supplied to them by Ms Campbell-Jones ;)

Just a thought - is she interested in ecology / the environment?

I know it’s not directly linked to her degree, but I work in engineering and construction and we are always crying out for good environmental advisors.
I’ve worked with a few who did biology / zoology as their first degrees, then worked as ecologists before realising the money wasn’t very good, so did masters in environmental science and started working in these sorts of roles. You have to have some animal / plant knowledge wrt invasive / protected species, so it isn’t a complete jump away from her degree, although you do also get the less glamorous side of waste management and pollution prevention!

Feel free to message me if she wants more info :)

Work experience in the field she wants a career in is absolutely and utterly critical.

I didn’t start my career until 22. I loafed around then suddenly thought bollocks to my minimum wage job. I can’t live like this anymore..

I sat amongst younger juniors and surpassed them ending up well above average salary by 25 and finally on higher income tax by 27. I was what you call a late starter.

Give her a chance. At least she doesn’t like working there so it’s unlikely she’ll be there in ten years time!

Oh and agree with volunteering. I also did that before anyone would touch me! So I cut back my hours on minimum wage job and volunteered for no pay. If she can afford to that obviously