To be gutted and annoyed that DD did a degree and now works in Tesco?

[whitman]

DD is 21 and also pretty miserable. She has just had to up her hours at Tesco. She worked there part time while being a student and absolutely loved it for a part time job (only working 1 6 hour shift a week). She is in her 3rd full time week and hates it. She is really upset, to the point of tears. We all told her that she would be better doing a vocational degree (one that actually let to a job).

She applied for lots and lots of jobs that didn't even require a degree but definitely matched the sort of thing she studied.

She then applied to be an RSPCA officer, but unfortunately struggled at interview.

She did Biology with Animal Behaviour.

She doesn't have much work experience honestly.

It's just a shame that she spent all them years and money to end up doing the job she was doing before the degree.

She's very upset and is pretty miserable all the time. Is there hope for the future?

Still time!

She can work on getting relevant experience.
She can work on interview technique.
She can apply for more jobs!

I spent 6 months after I finished my degree working full time at McDonald’s! Then I got a job in the field I studied in and within a year brought my own flat and moved out! It can be done, she just needs time. Sounds like she has a good attitude to job hunting so hopefully it won’t be long for her!

My dd has a law degree (top RG university) then an MSC (prize for top mark and top dissertation - distinction or whatever - at another very top RG uni. Currently doing low paid work exp work admittedly in her field. It's poo. Would be better if she wasn't so set on a very very specific (but very worthwhile) career. They'll all get there. No 2 graduated this summer (again, good subject at good RG) and is working in the university bookshop.

Working is better than not working, and it does pay they rent. Never underestimate work experience.

If your DD is going to be ‘stuck’ doing jobs that aren’t relevant to her career goals for some time while she gains voluntary experience then it might be worth her reconsidering what interim roles she’s going to do. She doesn’t have to stay at Tesco until her dream job shows up. For example, if she’d be happier working in an office than Tesco, then she could apply for temp or permanent office junior roles. If she can’t already do it, I’d recommend she learns to touch type and gets to a decent level of Word and Excel so that she can do any sort of admin job. Those areathi gas she can learn at home in a couple of month maximum.

Don't worry about it, I had 2 degrees under my belt with a 'vocational' subject and worked agency jobs answering phones for 6 months after I graduated. These things take time.

What I will say is a degree gets you the foot in the door/interview, it will not get you the job. That comes down to confidence, attitude and demonstrating commitment. I worked an unpaid internship before I graduated to get the experience.

Perhaps volunteering is the way to go whilst she job hunts. It will build her confidence and her CV

She hasn't 'ended up' anywhere! She's doing an interim job while working out what to do next and applying for jobs. Totally normal and well done her for working - she won't have gaps on her CV.

A degree doesn't provide you with a path straight into a job. It does allow you to apply for a lot of jobs you couldn't otherwise. Also to do them, do them well and progress. The self-motivation, organisational and project-planning skills you gain doing a degree are invaluable in the workplace. (Having worked in a professional environment with trainees who did and didn't have degrees, the difference in these respects was stark).

It is completely normal that you need to gain experience through volunteering or internships, do further vocational training and keep on and on applying, to get the right sort of job.

In my time and preferred area of work - not the same as hers but with some similarities - there was really no such thing as an 'entry level training job', everybody was expected to have some relevant experience at the time of applying, so be able to get on with the job from the start. It was - and for the types of jobs you list - still will be, completely normal to have accumulated six months+ of relevant voluntary experience, in short bursts or a single stretch. Nobody would have dreampt of being able to 'walk into' a job straight after their degree.

Many, even most people had postgraduate qualifications. These might not always have been necessary, though often proved very useful, but distinguished them as determined and focused on a particular area of work. They can also be great for providing more space to think, explore the subject further and for making contacts.

Volunteering also has the huge benefit that early jobs, especially short contracts, are often picked up, even only heard about, by being in the right place at the right time.

Please encourage your DD to WATCH THIS AMAZING TED TALK it has really helped me improve my interview technique!!! (Sorry to shout but there’s lots of posts).

I agree, suggest she volunteers so she finds her real passion and has that experience on her CV.

Never underestimate being in full time work. Very appealing to potential employers.

I possibly have a bias to retail workers having spent all my working life in this until 35 but the best workers in my team always had retail experience. Something about having the resilience to dealing with the public hard to explain if you not got the experience.

If she can find a mentor at work always good too. Many of my part time employees wanted more than retail, I knew that and would help them get to the jobs they wanted, also helped I knew about planning to replace them but absolutly loved seeing them succeed to what they wanted to do in life.

I second what @Refilona said. My DH earned significantly less than me when we met in an entry level role (large government org) despite a decent degree from a red brick uni. He did do a technical qualification within his field to help him progress but then when roles came up we did lots of prep for the interviews and he's now much more confident and has been offered every promotion he's gone for.

Could she do some work exp or volunteering outside of her job? If she wants to work with animals I'm sure that would be valuable.

It is still early days, try to not get disheartened. Be glad that she has a good qualification under her belt that will serve her well eventually.
My DS left with a 2.1 and the worked in a phone shop for a year as he could not get a graduate job.
I see that year as a good thing. It taught him respect about having to manage a low paid job, how to manage money and how to deal in a public facing job.
He then did an unpaid internship (how I hate them) because he had mid week days off from the phone shop job for a year, then landed a paid job with them. Stayed a year and then literally flew. CV looked a lot better and he moved up and up.
He was so totally miserable in the low paid job and also in the internship, but the market is horrible and you have to do what you have to do to get on board. No one was going to offer him a 'graduate' job, he just had to look at prospects, openings, positions, opportunities and a little can sometimes lead to a lot. And the he got a 'graduate' job and that next left to where he is now, happy, earning a going wage and in a field that interests and engages him.

There are many paths, your daughter is doing fine at the moment.

Any entry-level position involving animals or wildlife suffers from Keen Amateur Syndrome - there's always someone prepared to volunteer for free/beer money so why would they recruit a graduate? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Graduating with an Ecology degree I realised there was no ways into general wildlife type positions that didn't involve a substantial period of time working for free with no prospects volunteering, unless you planned ahead and made sure your final year project was tied into an organisation you wanted to work for. My tactic was a change of direction, I did a Masters in a completely different subject and went in another direction. I enjoyed my degree, but ultimately I had chosen it because it was something I was good at not something aimed at a career (pre-student fee days, you could afford to do that).

The sort of jobs she's looking for are probably best tackled by not applying for advertised positions. Instead she needs to make contact with people in those organisations, establish relationships and discover who to ask for advice on getting employment within the organisation. This probably mean volunteering at least one weekend a month and attending every relevant evening talk, event, etc. she can. In other words, she needs to network the a**e out of it.

It's possible her CV needs a review, and her tactics in making applications. The careers advice I had from school and uni was pretty poor and didn't work in the real world.

The best piece of advice I can give on job hunting and making applications is:

Remember, the first person that reads you CV/application does not want to give you the job.

Once you get your head around the implications of that, you should find that your success rate with applications in terms of getting to the interview stage will improve.

Incidentally, I think the last time when people could walk out of a degree course and into a job, whatever their degree classification, probably an interesting one if they got a 2:1, was in the 1960s.

Animal related jobs are notoriously competitive. I have a friend who is so clever, got brilliant grades, animal-related degree and even lots of relevant experience but just couldn’t get a job anywhere in the UK. She ended up taking one in South America but got a lot of hassle out there and was very homesick so came back after just a few months.

She ended up retraining as a primary school teacher and loves it. Took her a couple of years longer than everyone thought it would to sort herself out but she got there in the end and is now very happy.

Is DD living with you? If you can afford it I would suggest she only works part time and spends the rest of the time doing relevant volunteering until she gets a job in the field she wants.

Incidentally, I think the last time when people could walk out of a degree course and into a job, whatever their degree classification, probably an interesting one if they got a 2:1, was in the 1960s.

This.

First degrees are commonplace nowadays. If your dd has been labouring under the belief that if you work hard at school and college, then go to university this will lead to a 'good' career, that is unfortunately a misapprehension or at best a simplification. Employers these days want experience along with educational qualifications and soft skills on top of that too.

The reality is, at 21 and recently graduated, she is fortunate to have any full time job at all. The sooner we (teachers / parents / society) put the aforementioned myth to bed the better. That may have been true when only 1/10 or 1/20 people made it to university but it certainly isn't today.

HOWEVER. There's lots to be positive about. She has been and is continuing to gain experience. She should focus on what transferable skills she is improving in this role and prepare to talk about them in future interviews. I.e if she has to stack shelves, this requires attention to detail. Can she recall a time when she used that particular skill? Look up competency based questions, these are popular with interviewers these days.

What @lowtide said - a degree alone doesn't cut it these days.

I've sent you a PM :)

Hugs for you and and your DD. It's hard to watch your children feel so despondent. Schools and Universities always tell the young if you study and work hard, your dreams will come true and although yes hard work is important, the reality is often luck and networks play a huge part especially in highly competitive fields. I agree that volunteer work in the right areas play a part. Have a chat with your dd and tell her it might be an idea to get careers advice to really narrow down the types of work she wants to do then she needs to do some research into organisations, write to them, ask family and friends for any possible connections you could link with. At the same time tell her to go to bed on time, being tired will not give her the energy or attitude to do the former plus tell her to save as much as you can from her job so when and if she does need to take up a voluntary role, she has some money in the bank she can use.

Good luck

I'm 28. I spent a year getting more relevant work exp for a pgce & then decided I hated it. I spent 4 years in retail afters. Honestly? Don't let her fall into the full time trap. If you do that, your best way out is to climb up & become suitable for an office job. Unless that appeals, she really needs to volunteer or look at how to acquire some further training- tough around a FT job, tougher still around variable shifts FT. She's not written off, just at a crossroads but needs to really take a look at herself. I have an admin job now & wouldn't swap the skillset that got me there, but I worked like a bitch to get out. I had huge confidence issues, too, which didn't exactly help! Good luck to her.

Some practical advice, as well as volunteering she could look into the AMTRA exams. They cost a few hundred to take but would really help her CV. Obviously they would only be worth her while if animal pharmaceuticals where an area she was interested in.

A different angle here.

The list of jobs that she's applied for are appropriate for her but she got nowhere. Maybe look at what she's saying in interviews.

Was she SPECIFIC as to why she wanted THAT job not just one using her skills. Had she done enough research into the nitty gritty?

I used to recruit and would want to know why they wanted to work for my organisation in particular and why that role not another.

Think about why she wants that job in particular and what benefits she would get.

Think about what she has to offer that other candidates may not ie why pick her. Specific modules or experience.

Think about what challenges she might face and how she'd overcome them.

Research the next stage up roles within that organisation so when asked where she'd like to be in 5 years it can be still in the same role or still within their organisation so they're not having to keep recruiting.

Take notes in, you don't have to hoof it. I'd take in a little bulleted list so that I didn't forget any questions I wanted to ask or points I wanted to make.

For me the interview was a two way street too. Prepare lots of specific questions about the role and organisation to ensure it would meet her needs too. She needs to be memorable. The best candidates were the ones where we had a good discussion rather than them passively answering my questions.

I'd recommend as much voluntary work as possible in her free time. It will get her loads of experience, show her to be proactive and genuinely passionate about her chose cause (obviously somewhere animal related), and in my experience a lot of voluntary placements lead to either a job offer or at the very least some good contacts in the field as well as added skills and confidence.

Start up her own dog grooming, behaviour service? Save money from job at tesco to get a van and kit up as mobile dog grooming with behaviour work also,?

What does she want to do?

For clinical Animal behaviour she needs a PG qualification see:
www.asab.org
For Veterinary nursing she needs a VN diploma or degree
www.rcvs.org.uk/lifelong-learning/students/veterinary-nursing-students/enrolling-as-a-student-veterinary-nurse/

If she wants to work as an Animal Care assistant, shelter worker, or rspca officer then she needs to follow the relevant training pathways - often very poorly paid and requiring extensive practical experience.

I suspect the feedback she’s received so far isn’t trying to be dismissive but constructive - it’s right Animal-related jobs require extensive practical experience not just a degree. As a Vet students we had to complete at least 38 weeks of work experience through our degree programmes to develop practical skills in addition to the academic requirements.

Alternatively she could look at Animal behaviour or welfare Research or academic roles but she’d likely need PG qualifications.

I suggest she does some work experience to figure out exactly what it is she wants to do - biology/Animal behaviour is a very diverse area, and then focuses on a particular pathway rather than just applying for Animal-related jobs

I’ve had a fascinating 25 year career in national journalism. Immediately post-BA, I was working as a temp doing admin for a cleaning agency. Give her my love, and tell her it’s a long game. Like her, I started when the economy was a bit shit and it takes time and perseverance.