Is food poverty real?

[Leapfrog44]

Provocative title, sorry I know food poverty is real. I'm just not convinced about the extent of it.

I've cooked half a packet of dried chickpeas 50p which we eat fried with garlic, salt and olive oil. They're also delicious with pasta or with potatoes as a curry. Braised Puy lentils (60p) cooked with onions, celery and the bendy carrots left in the fridge.

And to really push the boat out an aubergine stew with onions and tomatoes. The 3 big aubergines cost £1.50. Tomatoes and parsley came from the garden.

I spent an hour cooking today including making a loaf of bread. With some rice or couscous, and some salad, what I've made will feed us for 4 nights.

We have apples too, foraged at the weekend. The windfall ones I cut the bad off and stewed them, the rest are good for eating. There are also elderberries, plums and a few late blackberries dotted around the margins of the city for anyone who can be bothered to go out and pick them.

I know not everyone has a garden but a very small space can be used to grow quite a lot. In pots I grew enough tomatoes, green beans and lettuce to feed us all summer. If I was less lazy or more skint, I'd also seed save, to ensure I can grow them for free next year. Many allotment holders would totally give up some produce in exchange for labour too.

So I guess I'm wondering if the increasing number of people who are in financial dire staits and find themselves needing to use food banks are in fact suffering from a lack of food education as much as lack of money? Our grandparents in the same situation would have cultivated every bit of earth with home grown vegetables and I'm sure would have been more resourceful and more capable of making do on very little.

Obviously there are very vulnerable people without the means to cook or to grow but surely not everyone experiencing 'food poverty' is in this category? I often wonder why at food banks they don't ask if recipients have access to a bit of ground (or a few pots) and give them seeds? Pulses and in season veggies are incredibly cheap and with a few quid you can feed your family really well if you know how to cook them. It's far better to cook a simple vegetable curry or dhal and eat it all week than have to exist on the pot noodles, tinned sludge, sugary cereals and biscuits that they're giving out.

Times are going to get MUCH tougher. Climate change and environmental destruction will soon jeopardise our food security and food banks will not be able to help everyone.

So AIBU? As a society are we actually getting poorer and hungrier or have we just raised a couple of generations lacking general resourcefulness, cooking skills and horticultural know how? Times are tough for increasing numbers but I can't help feeling that many of these people just don't have a clue how to help themselves.

Working concurrent days and nights is soul destroying. I did it for two years. I worked 9-5 at one job then 530-12 at the other for three weekdays, the other weekdays I only worked 9-5 and then every Saturday and Sunday I worked 11-8. It was an eighty hour week week after week with no days off. Even though I was able for rest two evenings per week after my first job and before 11 on weekends and after 8pm weekends it made me so ill working eighty hours regularly. By the end of the working day Wednesday i’d worked 45 hours usually, more then many people work in an entire week.

It’s not sustainable long term. I had to do it to pay my way through my full time masters and I managed it cos I knew there was an end in sight, and that after two years I’d be able to get decent paid jobs. I now only work 40 hours per week and it feels like such a doss coming from that!

I was so unwell though, nonstop colds and lung infections and bladder infections and migraines, mentally and physically I felt broken. I’d have to nap in the toilets on the floor on my lunch break to try and squeeze a few minutes rest in.

I’d do it all again cos it was worth it, two years of extremely difficult work, for a lifetime of a great career. People said they couldn’t understand how I was managing, but I did it cos I had to and the alternative would have been to give up on my dream career and accept a lifetime of crappy NMW jobs. But I don’t know if I could have done it without an end in sight. It was awful seeing colleagues who knew they’d have to do it permanently and couldn’t wrap it up after two years like me. I’ve never felt such bone crushing exhaustion in my life, but I’m so grateful to have had the opportunity to do it as now four years down the line I earn more in one full time job than I did in all of that work, I have so much free time only doing forty hours per week.

Does it not occur to you how obscene it is that you have clients who pay you to find ways of protecting the benefits they quite clearly don't need?

These could be people who have spent years training for a certain profession, or have made sacrifices in order to achieve success in business.

They are entitled by law to tax breaks and benefits.

Didn't see your post.

So, you have decided they don't qualify or deserve any benefits because it suits your silly angle of argument? Only rich people need accountants. Are we doing this level of ridiculous.

I filed someones return yesterday who made a profit of £2k last year. He's entitled to a breadth of support.

And no, I'm one of those accountants that likes to work for free. Craziness that people using their accountant for financial advice, should have to pay for it...

Comical. Seriously.

@Allergictoironing you need to have a word with HMRC - you are only earning £450 per month, so you shouldn't be paying tax or NI, (unless you have other income). Hope things get better for you.

I had to do it to pay my way through my full time masters

Exactly. You did it in order to achieve your goal. You didn't make excuses. And that's why you have a masters degree, instead of not having one, but a good story about all the reasons why you could have, but didn't.

That's why you have a great career. Because of that attitude to life. Unfortunately, some will only ever have the excuse and try to shout down all those that just get on and do it.

You said how hard it was, but you'd do it all again. Likewise. We are, as you say, grateful for the opportunity, as opposed to scrabbling for any reason why that opportunity can be dismissed.

I was on a work placement during the day, going straight from there to a vocational evening class, pregnant, I was in front of a computer screen for 11 hours a day, came home at 9.30pm, bought a takeaway 7" pizza for £2 because it was cheap and quick, got to bed at 11pm, downstairs's curry party went on until 5am, his kitchen was under my bedroom, so no sleep, this was every Tuesday.

Not getting enough sleep does affect your health. It shortens your life.

@philomena

Yep. It does. But if it was the choice of that, or not being able to keep myself and children with any food or warmth, it would be a no brainer.

What I wouldn't do is bang on about how I should be able to afford it because that's my entitlement. That's acknowledging the issue, but doing nothing about it via the reasoning it shouldn't be your job too.

There's a load of things that people have suggested as perfectly possible ways to improve certain situations. And they are batted off left right and centre because its hassle, or "I shouldn't have to" or "it might affect me like this /that"

Exactly. You did it in order to achieve your goal. You didn't make excuses. And that's why you have a masters degree, instead of not having one, but a good story about all the reasons why you could have, but didn't.

Yeah, I am so so glad I did it. I had every excuse under the sun as to why I couldn’t tbh (I had a serious chronic pain disability and was on a lot of heavy duty painkillers like morphine which contributed to the tiredness), my mum had just died so I was grieving and fighting off depression, and my ex had left me out of the blue right before the course started so I was in a bad place. But looking towards the future I knew even with all of that going on that nobody was going to give me a pass for that stuff and hand me a well paying enjoyable job. I had to work for it. So I did, it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done by the rewards have been incredible.

It got quite boring hearing the ‘you can’t possibly do it’ from others though even though they meant well! I lost track of the number of coworkers from job 1 who would express surprise I could go straight to job 2 and keep working until midnight cos they were so tired they needed to just go home and rest. I felt like saying I’m not doing this for fun, I need to rest too, I’m doing it cos I have no choice if I want to succeed. It’s amazing what you can achieve when you want it badly enough I guess.

If I hadn’t done it I’d still be in a crappy unfulfilling NMW job with no prospects and be unable to ever save for a house or contemplate affording children. But my point is that I don’t think working that amount of hours is sustainable long term. Two years felt like my limit, though no doubt I’d have done it longer if I had to. But it does wreak havoc on your health and well-being. It’s fine for short bursts of a year or two at a time but I don’t see how it’s sustainable. Even though my mind was determined my body was resisting by getting ill all the time, which surprised me.

It did teach me that there’s almost always a way if you want something badly enough and you’re willing to put the work in. I can enjoy the rewards for the rest of my life now. I’m not a fan of the nonstop ‘but this is why someone can’t do this’ all the time, it just comes across as being obtuse for the sake of it.

So, Courtney, you work two jobs for financial security yet work for nothing to help people retain their benefits. You also look down on and scorn some people on benefits but help others to keep them because apparently they're the deserving poor.

Have I got that right? Because if I have, I think I for one can safely ignore any opinions you might have on this matter because they're worthless coming from someone who fails to appreciate their complete lack of any logic or consistency.

No dear. I was taking the piss by saying I work for free. Didn't appreciate that needed spelling out.

It seems there’s a real culture of fear and of being unwilling to take steps that might potentially be a bit difficult or exhausting, even when it will lead to a better future. I do get the sense people are lacking in resourcefulness. Whether we ever had it, I don’t know. I suspect it’s more a difference between individuals of any generation than a generational thing. It’s not helped by the huge push towards whataboutery we’ve all noticed. When did it become the cultural norm to put more effort into finding reasons and excuses not to do something that will help than to find ways to improve one’s situation?

It’s amazing what you can achieve when you want it badly enough I guess.

If I hadn’t done it I’d still be in a crappy unfulfilling NMW job with no prospects and be unable to ever save for a house or contemplate affording children

Amen!

In which case, if someone can afford to pay for your services they don't need benefits and shouldn't be claiming them. So sorry, you've painted yourself into a corner here and completely wrecked your credibility.

Courtney555
There are layers of poverty and difficulty below the ones you see in your office.

When did it become the cultural norm to put more effort into finding reasons and excuses not to do something that will help than to find ways to improve one’s situation?

Because it's easy. Excuse makers like easy.

Blue lady you really have no clue. It's impossible to explain if you aren't capable of understanding. Plenty of clients that use accountants receive help from the government. I can't make those words any simpler for you.

Upstart, I absolutely agree with you. Some of the scenarios described on this thread are awful.

I would have assumed that none of my clients faced anything like that, but hearing about the various tax credits, housing allowance, council tax assistance, UC that has been mentioned, I have clients on that level of minimal income that they receive those things too. So, it's very possible they could be in similar situations, I would have had no idea that these situations were common. That's certainly an eye opener.

There are also layers of people's ability to withstand more work. Some people can just physically and/or mentally cope with more than others, that's a mix of genetics and circumstances rather than will and desire. Yes I know that there are plenty of people out there who are lazy, but I also know plenty who just couldn't cope with doing any more than they are already doing.

Courtney555 you are obviously someone who has been blessed with good genes both for the intelligence to qualify as an accountant and the strength to manage 2 jobs. You show a remarkable lack of understanding that not everyone is the same as you and is able to keep up with "superwoman". You make me think of the people who say to someone severely clinically depressed "pull yourself out of it and go for a brisk walk". I could make stereotyping comments about accountants, but I know many do have empathy and I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush.

@allergic

That's the big problem in a nutshell right here.

I don't take offence to what you say at all. For a minority, doing what I (and many others) do is not feasible. Agree totally. But our culture is on its knees when putting in a little bit of effort is so abnormal, that I'm "superwoman"

I'm not superwoman. I'm nothing special at all. I'm simply not making excuses and taking accountability for myself and the decision I make.

Don't make childish references to likening this to dismissing mental health issues thank you, the two are far removed.

No, Courtney, it's you who doesn't have a clue. If you can't see the inconsistency of your stance there isn't much hope for you. Your clients, who have enough money for an accountant's services are enlisting your help to keep benefits they don't need and you're colluding with them to do that. What's worse is that you can't see anything wrong with it and have the audacity to criticise people whose circumstances are far worse.

As a tax payer who's funding those benefits I find the entire scenario distasteful and offensive, as well as morally bankrupt.

What a strange question. Has OP ever seen the starving people advert on TV? Or does this person think those people don't matter. You are lucky to have peas. Some people drink dirty water to hold their insides together. Damn [shocked]

Blue lady, just to clarify, you think you're entitled to say my client yesterday, for example, on a profit of £2k this year and a loss the year before, should not be allowed to claim assistance for the government.

On the basis he can pay his accountancy bill. By instalments. Over 12mths.

U ok hun?

It's amazing what you can achieve when you want it badly enough.

The most stupidest closed minded I'm alright Jack statement I've have ever read.

Yes there is. When i first went on maternity we paid our bills and had 20quid a week left. I could live on beans n chickpeas but quite franklyi needed the food bank since i had a growing baby to think of. I felt so ill and stressed. Husband also worked on building sites n i didnt want him fainting from hunger. Thankfully we are in a better position