Is food poverty real?

[Leapfrog44]

Provocative title, sorry I know food poverty is real. I'm just not convinced about the extent of it.

I've cooked half a packet of dried chickpeas 50p which we eat fried with garlic, salt and olive oil. They're also delicious with pasta or with potatoes as a curry. Braised Puy lentils (60p) cooked with onions, celery and the bendy carrots left in the fridge.

And to really push the boat out an aubergine stew with onions and tomatoes. The 3 big aubergines cost £1.50. Tomatoes and parsley came from the garden.

I spent an hour cooking today including making a loaf of bread. With some rice or couscous, and some salad, what I've made will feed us for 4 nights.

We have apples too, foraged at the weekend. The windfall ones I cut the bad off and stewed them, the rest are good for eating. There are also elderberries, plums and a few late blackberries dotted around the margins of the city for anyone who can be bothered to go out and pick them.

I know not everyone has a garden but a very small space can be used to grow quite a lot. In pots I grew enough tomatoes, green beans and lettuce to feed us all summer. If I was less lazy or more skint, I'd also seed save, to ensure I can grow them for free next year. Many allotment holders would totally give up some produce in exchange for labour too.

So I guess I'm wondering if the increasing number of people who are in financial dire staits and find themselves needing to use food banks are in fact suffering from a lack of food education as much as lack of money? Our grandparents in the same situation would have cultivated every bit of earth with home grown vegetables and I'm sure would have been more resourceful and more capable of making do on very little.

Obviously there are very vulnerable people without the means to cook or to grow but surely not everyone experiencing 'food poverty' is in this category? I often wonder why at food banks they don't ask if recipients have access to a bit of ground (or a few pots) and give them seeds? Pulses and in season veggies are incredibly cheap and with a few quid you can feed your family really well if you know how to cook them. It's far better to cook a simple vegetable curry or dhal and eat it all week than have to exist on the pot noodles, tinned sludge, sugary cereals and biscuits that they're giving out.

Times are going to get MUCH tougher. Climate change and environmental destruction will soon jeopardise our food security and food banks will not be able to help everyone.

So AIBU? As a society are we actually getting poorer and hungrier or have we just raised a couple of generations lacking general resourcefulness, cooking skills and horticultural know how? Times are tough for increasing numbers but I can't help feeling that many of these people just don't have a clue how to help themselves.

Babysitters dont get a fiver

Good for you getting more, I got a fiver, do you want the names of the couple who employed me? They still live in the same house, can give the address too if it helps.
Poverty and living in poverty, surrounded by poverty means no one has money.
They trusted me,
I would rather have that fiver than nothing, if I had asked for more I would have got it, but then fewer gigs. See it's how money works.
If you have none or very little, you have to choose.
So say I asked for a tenner, they say ok no worries but they then have less to go out with and ask me fewer times. No better off.

Courtney I see what you are saying, and plenty of people engage in this type of 'gig-economy' work you suggest, but .. a) it's unreliable and

b) Is everyone suggesting this forgetting that if you do as suggested you EITHER HAVE TO DECLARE YOUR 'EXTRA' £20-£40 TO THE BENEFITS AGENCY AND THEN YOUR PAYMENTS (not just jsa, tax creds and housing payments etc too) WILL BE REDUCED ACCORDINGLY, SO YOU ARE IN THE SAME POSITION AS BEFORE (because unless someone can 'babysit' etc enough to pay all their bills ie 100s a week, then they are still reliant on benefits , and anything they earn reduces the benefits) , OR ALTERNATIVELY TO ACTUALLY SEE THIS EXTRA £20 WHICH WILL HELP YOU FOR FOOD, YOU'D HAVE TO COMMIT FRAUD!!

I'm actually beginning to think that people make suggestions like yours not out of nastiness, but of ignorance about how the benefits / welfare top ups system actually works.

As a single mother I have learnt to cook cheaply and without using loads of fuel, it's boring fare but ok and nutritious enough. I could write many suggestions and recipes, but that would only help the just-about-managing, not those who've been sanctioned and have ZERO (yes ZERO) money for months or even years, or who work but cannot afford even basics, or who work but on 4 weekly pay and have received no top ups this month and therefore their wages don't even cover the rent and childcare bill never mind food or travel to work..

The point is, there is this inability to actually HEAR what is actually going on - that cuts and sanctions and low wage economy are leaving some people WITHOUT ENOUGH FOR EVEN THE MOST BASIC FOOD TO EAT, and no amount of savvy bean-eating, foraging, or committing small scale benefit fraud as and when you can is going to change that. What is underneath the situation needs changing.

I am reminded of the case where a disabled man was sanctioned, and died months later with £3.44 in his bank account and a tin of out of date sardines the only food in his house. He died because he couldn't keep money on the meter to refrigerate his insulin.

Nothing like this should happen in this country today. But it is and does. And these people are seen by the government as simply collateral damage. But nobody wants to see it, and come on here suggesting lentils etc as a solution.. don't be so surprised when those who have experienced hunger or worse get angry at those suggestions.

I did as you suggested when I lost my job and couldn't find another around Childcare constraints - I am a self employed cleaner. There is no way I could make enough to pay all bills myself (maybe if I lived alone in a shared flat I could).

The tax office do not care about the odd night babysitting. Believe me. I'm a qualified accountant and my cousin works in the tax office.

More exaggerated excuses to discount something that would be a perfectly good avenue to explore? On this thread? Who knew.

@abacucat I also work nights, three nights a week. I have two baby sitters I use on a weekly basis. I found both, searching "babysitters" on fb local groups. I also had another girl who I found on an ad she had placed on the village shop noticeboard, but she moved away.

On a Fri get here at 8 when DS is already in bed (unless it's the one with a DD, then he can stay up and play) and I get home about 1am. One gets £20. The other is bloody amazing at ironing, sewing, seamstress stuff, so she does a few bits of sewing to help me out when needed, and a basket of ironing each week. She gets £40.

They have use of the WiFi, sky TV, I get in tea, coffee and fruit juice, but don't provide food. Having said that, I often have leftovers in the fridge and I say help yourself. One does, one doesn't.

My friends are always asking for their numbers, always looking for good babysitters. I hide details of the one that does the ironing, she's mine!

What I'm getting at is there are tonnes of women like me, who don't want to leave a teenager in charge of their house and DC, and know the going rate is pretty much around £25, plus a tenner for every extra child.

Stick an ad up. I'd go fb first. Reply to people looking for babysitters. It can't hurt.

Courtney the DWP do though.

@flooffloof

Babysitters dont get a fiver

Good for you getting more, I got a fiver, do you want the names of the couple who employed me

You already said it was years and years ago why try and pretend it's still a going rate now.

They do not get a fiver.

Courtney555 yes finally someone who agrees with being proactive in difficult circumstances. So much negativity towards anyone who dares to suggest ways to earn more cash.

The tax office do not care about the odd night babysitting. Believe me. I'm a qualified accountant and my cousin works in the tax office.

I don't supposed they do, is the "odd" night going to get someone out of poverty?
You then say you regularly employ 2 baby sitters, great and good, but that's then not an odd night, it's regular employment and if they are claiming, they better own up.
Do you think your £40 sitter can start a business and earn enough with it?
£40 ×7 =280
Assuming working every night, which is unlikely. Pay nat ins, business insurance etc.
Do you think the £20 A night sitter can?

Surely it is the lack of affordable social housing in the UK that is causing such poverty. If people had a guaranteed roof over their head they would be able to improve their circumstances. Chicken and egg really

So much whataboutery. It's so sad.

"The walls of their bubble are so thick and so opaque that no amount of reasoned argument will ever penetrate." I fear this is all too true!

This thread is about people with NO stable income, no savings, possibly no permanent or even mid-term home!

When it's 'tight budget' rather than 'no budget' then mners like myself and others can and do advise along the lines of slowly building up a stock of ingredients, cheaper recipes for more than one meal etc. But you KNOW that neshoma, and we know you know. But then even on threads about people being on tight budgets you seem to have unrealistic ideas of how people can improve matters or cope. Being ignorant of the FACTS for people who are actually in this situation is NOT just a different opinion.

Absolutely NOT saying those in this situation should just roll over and accept it! Instead saying that they NEED support from those better off and with the power to help them, both immediately and in terms of long term getting out of the situation. But then the pps who are saying 'well they just have to do X y Z' ALSO seem to be the type of people who THINK they're deserving of their LUCKY circumstances and that those in less fortunate positions are there because somehow they deserve it!

So I'm going to post this link again in hopes that any on the borderline might look and actually GET that for the majority it's sheer luck if they're not on the bones of their arse!

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Babysitting - where I live people just don't use babysitters. I suggested it as a 'pocket money' booster to dd when she was younger, she advertised and asked about and let people know but got not one enquiry. Why? Because we live in an area where money is tight for most. In addition it's an area where there's little migration, most people who live here have lived here all their lives, their relatives all live within a few streets of them. So rather than paying for sitters the older DC do it not only for their immediate family but also their cousins etc or if no older DC they do for each other by having the DC stay overnight at aunties and this favour is reciprocated, lot of grandparents do the babysitting too. All for free, so why would they pay? Also the families on very tight budgets rarely go out to socialise, they'll invite people round and just chat over coffee instead.

People who DO employ babysitters generally don't want you to bring your own DC.

I babysat as a way of getting a little extra money, especially for things like holidays, Xmas until I had dd in my late 20's. Employers of babysitters expect you to work in a way that suits them.

PLUS yet again - if that babysitter is on benefits they either need to declare or risk someone shopping them and losing potentially hundreds in benefits for the sake of £40 max? Come on!

"The tax office do not care about the odd night babysitting" even IF that were true, what do you think happens when someone calls the fraud dept to report someone they think is committing benefit fraud? I'll tell you what ACTUALLY happens ALL benefits are 'suspended' ie stopped - while they investigate! Even if someone is found not to have been committing fraud they barely get an apology let alone help to sort everything out going forward and DEFINITELY Not any help toward any debt incurred AS A DIRECT RESULT of this action! That's WHY myself and others on the 'benefit fraud' threads say unless the person has ABSOLUTE PROOF of fraud they're better keeping their noses out!

You already said it was years and years agowhy try and pretend it's still a going rate now.

They do not get a fiver.

I never claimed it's the going rate now. Are you hard of reading?

To all you wonderful posters that think they have the cure to poverty, I hope you all manage just fine when you spend years living through it.
I also hope you all get to spend 4 years in poverty, maybe even longer.
Good day.

No Courtney is suggesting evening work and a way to earn more cash. People are being deliberately obtuse on here. How about the teenagers whose families are in poverty helping out

Courtney but if someone reports the person for earning that extra £20/40 out of say, jealousy. Then the benefits office will suspend all benefits whilst they investigate, this happens frequently btw. It can take weeks and weeks to sort it out. Meanwhile the person just trying to get by has their Housing benefit stopped, fall into rent arrears and can face eviction. They can't feed their family, heat their homes, have a mobile that they need to search for jobs, can't pay fuel or bus fare to get to job interviews.
It's just not as simplistic as you're making out.

Christ alive

No. Its not a career. It's not a shining staircase out of poverty. Some of these comments, honestly.

What it is, is £30 odd quid, to someone in circumstances so dire that they can't afford 50p on the meter.

If it's only once, then it's one less week without being able to afford food.

But it's not a business?! What a bizarre excuse. So why bother doing the slightest thing to help myself.

This thread is excuse after excuse for so many. You can spot the genuine posters. There are some very idle people on here, who will spend the whole day making excuses about why nothing will help them trying to validate doing nothing, instead of spending half an hour trying something different for once. I know, even if there was only a 5% chance of success, I'd still try. Especially if it cost me nothing.

God forbid it might work.

Oh yes fob off ideas because they're 'hassle'

Jesus Christ. Enjoy living in poverty then because you're not prepared to think up ideas to make money.

@Courtney555 I know right?? Lazy lazy people

' no cleaning won't get enough hours to live on' it's better than nothing isn't it?

"Surely it is the lack of affordable social housing in the UK that is causing such poverty."

One of the major factors I'd agree. I'm in a HA flat, I'm disabled and mentally ill and a Lp so had quite a few "points" for the way it works - still took 9 years to get it as there's so little housings at all here. This meant previously I was in private rented, the majority of the rent being paid by housing benefit but I had to find an extra £70 a month to meet the full cost. That means the state was paying a private, wealthy landlord to house dd and I.

There's a recent luxury development been built here which is bonkers because nobody around here can afford to buy or even rent them from an outside landlord who buys them, there's very few jobs here, our high street is more than half empty and we've lost several major employers in recent years either they've gone bust or moved operations to Asia where labour is much cheaper! As there's no jobs there's certainly not people moving into the area.

The council has been heavily criticised for allowing that development and for not supporting businesses in order to create/maintain employment. But in reality the council is struggling just to do basics due to huge cuts in funding from central govt. because of course if people aren't working they're not able to pay full council tax!

The current govt bangs on about "encouraging people to go back to work" without actually doing anything to create jobs, to provide affordable housing, to improve wages!

One way they could do this is by funding house building ironically! Create jobs, build homes, reinvigorate deprived areas.

They could also raise the nmw to one that is an ACTUAL living wage!

I don't believe for a second that ANY member of the cabinet would have the first clue how to survive long term on nmw even WITH the top ups!

user because we all have teenagers. My DC are 28 (too ill to work), 26 (doing a PhD at Cardiff, we live in London), 11 and 7.

@Bimgy85

It does seem there's an underlying attitude of "well if it's not the magic answer that's going to whisk me out of the situation, then I'm not interested in the effort. But I shall sugar-coat it with excuses and declare its because the person suggesting anything that might help me is too ignorant to know anything of use "

I'll say again WATCH I DANIEL BLAKE, all of you that are genuinely interested in the system. Watch it and I defy you not to cry at the sheer horror of it.

Last time I was claiming and was offered a bit of "on the side" type work, I was told that if I earned over £5 per WEEK then for every £1 I was paid I would have £1 deducted from my JSA. As the minimum wage was more than that, I could in theory work less than 1 hour a week before it wasn't worth doing (this work was half a day at weekends). I was also told that if I did this work and was paid for it, and it came to the attention of the DWP, I would be committing fraud and would not only be sanctioned but could be prosecuted.

I had a number of people suggest I rent out my spare room in my house to top up my benefits. 1 week rental in my area at that time was about £75 per week, and that would be with all bills included, and of course I would go from single occupancy council tax to full council tax - this would also be considered as "earnings" from a JSA point of view as well. So I would actually be worse off unless I took the risk of being caught committing fraud.

I'm aware this is going to get angry answers, but my question is genuine.

A few posters have mentioned that after the mortgage payment, they can't afford food. If you work 16hrs a week for example, you'd get around £120. Topped up by about £75 working tax credits. Plus more child tax credits for DC.

This level of income gives almost fully subsided Council tax and rent. What it won't do, is pay your mortgage.

If this means after paying your mortgage, you can't afford food, then surely you're prioritising being a home owner over the need to provide food. It's not that you can't afford to live, you could in rented accommodation, just not as a home owner. Like nearly every young person that can't get on the property ladder.

I anticipate "how dare you, because I'm poor I can't choose to have a mortgage", no, not at all. It's your choice. But if you choose to be a home owner, and it's not affordable (which it's not if you can't eat!) then aren't you placing yourself in poverty because that's your preference of accommodation?

That question applies more so to the people who are in this situation in a more long term scenario. Not to those who have suffered a sudden life event that has changed everything and the situation is new and they haven't worked out what's the way forward yet.

Except most situations are sudden. Such as my DP suddenly becoming seriously ill after a lifetime of working full time. Literally had a blood test and got a call from the GP the same day saying go to the hospital now, you need to be admitted or you could die.

He gets no sick pay as officially self employed, although works for 1 employer. We went from his full time wage, to nothing.