Is food poverty real?

[Leapfrog44]

Provocative title, sorry I know food poverty is real. I'm just not convinced about the extent of it.

I've cooked half a packet of dried chickpeas 50p which we eat fried with garlic, salt and olive oil. They're also delicious with pasta or with potatoes as a curry. Braised Puy lentils (60p) cooked with onions, celery and the bendy carrots left in the fridge.

And to really push the boat out an aubergine stew with onions and tomatoes. The 3 big aubergines cost £1.50. Tomatoes and parsley came from the garden.

I spent an hour cooking today including making a loaf of bread. With some rice or couscous, and some salad, what I've made will feed us for 4 nights.

We have apples too, foraged at the weekend. The windfall ones I cut the bad off and stewed them, the rest are good for eating. There are also elderberries, plums and a few late blackberries dotted around the margins of the city for anyone who can be bothered to go out and pick them.

I know not everyone has a garden but a very small space can be used to grow quite a lot. In pots I grew enough tomatoes, green beans and lettuce to feed us all summer. If I was less lazy or more skint, I'd also seed save, to ensure I can grow them for free next year. Many allotment holders would totally give up some produce in exchange for labour too.

So I guess I'm wondering if the increasing number of people who are in financial dire staits and find themselves needing to use food banks are in fact suffering from a lack of food education as much as lack of money? Our grandparents in the same situation would have cultivated every bit of earth with home grown vegetables and I'm sure would have been more resourceful and more capable of making do on very little.

Obviously there are very vulnerable people without the means to cook or to grow but surely not everyone experiencing 'food poverty' is in this category? I often wonder why at food banks they don't ask if recipients have access to a bit of ground (or a few pots) and give them seeds? Pulses and in season veggies are incredibly cheap and with a few quid you can feed your family really well if you know how to cook them. It's far better to cook a simple vegetable curry or dhal and eat it all week than have to exist on the pot noodles, tinned sludge, sugary cereals and biscuits that they're giving out.

Times are going to get MUCH tougher. Climate change and environmental destruction will soon jeopardise our food security and food banks will not be able to help everyone.

So AIBU? As a society are we actually getting poorer and hungrier or have we just raised a couple of generations lacking general resourcefulness, cooking skills and horticultural know how? Times are tough for increasing numbers but I can't help feeling that many of these people just don't have a clue how to help themselves.

All we used was one knife, and we bottled it in jam jars so none of it was frozen. Then the carcass was dod food for a few days

I can only imagine how many jam jars you'd need to store the meat of two dead deer?!

The whole thing sounds like a fucking horror film...two dead deer, jam jars full of flesh and a dog eating the carcass...

I'm just sad at the hundreds of excuses and aggression been given here whilst hardy anyone has come up with ideas to actually help those struggling. Just a million 'reasons' why a suggestion won't help.

I think a lot have just come on to be argumentative and aggressive without actually caring about food bank users.

So why aren't people coming up with ideas to help those in need? some may be able to access a community garden, some may find road kill, some try chick peas and like them. That would be more useful than hostility, swearing and getting angry.

Well I can't keep a cactus alive so there's no chance of me growing enough so we don't starve.
That's without the initial outlay and time etc.

😂😂😂 the roadkill storage just gets funnier. Jam jars?

It IS real if there are food banks. I imagine people turning up at these need food, not seeds. They might not have time to grow their own stuff. They might be fucking depressed.

What works for you is not going to work for others. You don't know their circumstances. Good for you for finding the personal solutions, but I fear your specific approach isn't helpful.

So why aren't people coming up with ideas to help those in need?

We are not a county in famine...there's food on the shelves. People just need enough money to buy it. These creative suggestions are ridiculous. People need wages which reflect the cost of living or benefits which they can survive on.

dead deer in jam jars has me hooting with laughter

Although the OP sounded insufferably smug, I can kind of see where she is coming from in questioning food poverty.
I agree with the PPs who say her method of combating food costs would not be for everyone for various good reasons, but I also question the concept of food poverty, in the same way as I questioned the concept of period poverty last month.
I think there is a large contingent of posters on threads such as these who like to consider themselves as liberal, kind and understanding, without having any concept of what it's actually like to live on a small income.
They imagine what it's like and project their 'experience', and I think the result can be deeply patronising to people who manage quite reasonably on the kind of income that has the poverty porn frothers wringing their hands in despair on their behalf.
The period poverty thread incidentally was also nearly taken down by MN because posters did not like their virtue signalling interrupted by those who disagreed with them.
There was a couple of posters - myself included - who lived on a very small income for quite a long stretch and, to be honest, no-one seemed to be interested in the reality of people actually living in the situation, just in their perception of how they thought it would be.
It's a controversial view, but I might as well state it again. There is no-one in this country so poor they cannot afford to buy food/sanitary products. They may direct their budget elsewhere, but that's a budgeting issue, not a lack of money issue.
I used to read another message board a couple of years ago, and there was one poster adamant that she could only afford to spend £45 every six weeks to feed herself and her two children. And she managed it and posted extensively about it.
However, when questioned, she became very cagey about things, and it transpired that she was saving for a family holiday and for her wedding. She also liked to spend quite a lot of her children at Christmas, so was saving for that too.
Now, there's nothing wrong with any of those things, and I don't have a problem at all with them. But to say she only had £45 per six weeks to spend on food was disingenuous, as she had a lot more but chose not to spend it on food.
You can spend your income or benefits on what you want, but if you choose not to prioritise food, that's your problem. And that is the - controversial - heart of the matter.

I'll come up with a suggestion. Kick out this rotten, austerity obsessed government, make global corporations pay their fair share of tax, make zero hours contracts illegal, stop sanctions on benefits, stop universal free school meals and focus on the kids who need them, subsidise key meter fuel and stop blaming the poor bastards who can't afford to feed their kids.

Some of the comments on this thread are a fucking disgrace.

I'm just sad at the hundreds of excuses and aggression been given here whilst hardy anyone has come up with ideas to actually help those struggling. Just a million 'reasons' why a suggestion won't help.

I think a lot have just come on to be argumentative and aggressive without actually caring about food bank users.

I agree with this

cathf yes there fucking are people so poor in this country that they can't afford to buy food/sanitary products. When DD's periods start, something will have to give. DH and I will have to skip meals. I've bought a couple of packets of pads in, but they might only last her a few days. Early periods are so unpredictable.

Ok i posted yesterday but here are some figures for people who think this should be easy to sort out...

Let's take each issue one at a time

1. Benefits.
   I'm currently on benefits. Didn't used to be. Never wanted to be. Hoping to get off them asap. I won't share how I ended up here because frankly it's no ones business. It's not for anyone else to judge if I'm one of the deserving poor or not.
   I'm pretty dynamic and self driven not to mention ambitious. Benefits wasn't a lifestyle choice for me.
   We're lucky because there is a way out for us soon. Not everyone has that.

2. Housing.
   I live in an unsellable property and for safety reasons don't want to rent out a room as I have small children. So please no comments about moving because if it was that easy then I'd have done it.
   We're lucky because it's safe, stable and in a good state if repair. Also it's mine and I'm not at the mercy of a landlord. Not everyone has that.

3. Education.
   I am highly educated with post grad professional qualifications and at one point in the dim and distant past was a higher tax payer.
   We're lucky again because those things give me a bedrock to see a possible solution to this situation. Not everyone has that.

4I ) learnt budgeting, household management and cooking skills at my parents knees as it were. I am Mrs scraps = delicious. Those skills make me extremely privileged.

I live within walking distance of several budget supermarkets. I can't emphasise enough how many people don't have that.
So all the basis for criticism earlier in the thread have been covered in my situation.

5. Now for the figures: We receive in total £900 a month from the state plus free school meals. That is our entire income. Of that £900: £550 goes on mortgage and insurance £35 on phone £45 for gas and elec (that is £1 a day elec and 50p gas). Obviously much more in winter except it's not more in winter because it can't be. £30 water £86 council tax £30 petrol £40 car insurance £10 for after school activity £20 professional insurance (need this to get back to work) = £816

Haven't even bought any food yet.
3 people.
We need food, loo rolls, soap and shampoo, toothpaste and brushes, carrier bags are our bin bags but they also cost now. The only drinks we get are milk and tea bags. Washing up liquid, washing powder, cleaning materials. Thankfully the nappy years are behind me!
We now have £84 to get all the above.

Herbs, spices, flavourings, stock cubes, oil get used up and can't be replaced.

6. Additional costs We don't have a tv license or anything like netflix. We use YouTube instead. Because it's my place any repairs are my responsibility so the oven dying was a bit of a bugger. 3 months it took to sort that out. 3 months without an oven. Summer has just happened. Even a daily picnic at the park costs (did you get the bit about free school meals? ). Also suncream is expensive! Bless em, but those kids of mine keep growing and even buying shoes on ebay requires you to pay postage. They even want a present on their birthday and Christmas selfish beasts. My hair was last cut a year ago. All my clothes have holes but even the charity shops want something. I remember booze with fondness. The hoover has just broken as has the hair dryer. My children are social creatures so get invited to parties. Yes the works does cheap nice things for £5. Where does that fiver come from? We don't have a goat.

7)Growning food
As it happens I have green fingers and have dabbled with growning my own before.
£1 each for pots
£1 approx for compost
50p seeds at end of season sale
Tomatos take several months to grow.
Courgettes not so long but need bigger pots and more compost
Cucumbers don't like growning for me for some reason.
Beans take up a lot of space to get a decent amount.
£1 To get them really good you need feed so that's another pound
But i can't afford either the initial outlay OR to wait several months for my kids to eat a tomato.

8. There is research to show that people only have a certain amount of bandwidth for decision making. Its the reason that Mark Zuckburg wears the same clothing every day. If each trip to the shop requires a decision for the following things how much energy do you think people have left to think of ways out of this hole?... The porridge is this much and will.last for x meals but milk is this much and lasts for x less meals. Tea bags. The bigger box is cheaper per bag but more initially so do I have enough for x? The tinned chickpeas are more than dried but need less cooking time = elec usage The yellow label sausages might only be 50p but I've got to serve something with them How many sandwiches can i make with one tin of tuna 65p I can buy yellow label cake or make my own for an inital outlay of lots more but my cake is frankly a damn sight better Which cake is on special offer for my childrens birthday? The eggs are x for 6 or x more for 15 but 15 will last longer. And on and on and on endlessly for every item. You can't meal plan because you don't know what will have been reduced to a level you can afford.

Bear in mind that this is before we think about nutrition and energy needs. Lenght of time cooking or even how edible this food will be. Not to mention that most people lije to eat a variety of foods

I'm very fortunate.
Family and friends have helped out and I have a good career waiting for me (fingers crossed). I had some savings going into this situation and a good idea of budgeting and budget cooking.
Even with all of that we almost went under several times over the past 18 months.

If you consider the privileged position I'm in (safe home, hope for a way out, budget shops near by, cooking facilities and the knowledge how to use them, help from other people, savings) and that still we almost ended up in food poverty hopefully it will help some nay sayers to see how easily it can happen to others and what a criminal shame it is that this country is in this situation.

You need to think about it in terms of the overall.

I can make home made bread, for example, but I can’t do it for what Tesco can sell me a loaf of cheap bread for.

Value eggs. Cheap bread. Sugar on top. French toast. Everyone fed for about a pound.

Cooking bacon. I still buy it now and cook with it. But. I have a cooker and power in my house to cook with. There were times when every single penny counted and the child coming home note for a pound for non uniform day fucked my budget. As did the party invite.

Oh flip. I still get periods. 55p a pack for pads too. Lucky i have light flow unlike many women

Aaaggh. And the tumble dryer conundrum. Obviously it's expensive to run or the house gets damp in winter. Decisions decisions.

Whilhemena Aldi own brand pads are really good. My daughter used them, she's not interested in tampons. She only needs light flow ones because she's on the pill for her acne but she rated the Aldi ones highly and they are a lot cheaper. But I'm aware that period poverty is real too very sadly these days.

Some people do not have the skill,equipment or even safe environment to cook in.

@cathf

I was recently out of work for health reasons. As a single adult, my only income was ESA with was a little over £72 per week. I have worked in well paid jobs in the past and have my own house on a mortgage. That £72 had to be stretched to pay for the interest on my mortgage (you don't get any help even just with the interest for over 30 weeks of claiming), my lighting, heating, cooking, council tax (yes you still have to pay some of that if claiming), household essentials such as loo roll, cleaning products etc, and food.

Priority no 1 was not defaulting on the mortgage as then a) I'd lose the roof over my head and b) in my field you need a clean financial record to work. This took up just over £300 of the typical £320 monthly income - leaving £20 a month in theory to pay for everything else. Luckily I had some savings, which helped eke out the income and pay for running my car (other health issues mean public transport isn't really an option for me).

Where would you like me to re-prioritise my budget, as according to you that was my only issue?

@Wilhemenawonka your list makes me feel ridiculously privileged.

The 55p ones are own brand of course. Like I said, we're very fortunate. I've only shared the information above so people can get an ideas of the specific problems and numbers involved.
Like the poster above who said even on a low wage people can manage because someone she knows was saving for a wedding. That type of thinking only adds to the stigma and misunderstanding of food poverty. We haven't experienced it but it was a close run thing and I can see only too clearly how it can happen with no way out

“It's a controversial view, but I might as well state it again. There is no-one in this country so poor they cannot afford to buy food/sanitary products. They may direct their budget elsewhere, but that's a budgeting issue, not a lack of money issue.”

There is a lot of truth in this (like it or not, it is often debt that tips people into poverty- now the reason for getting that debt are often justifiable but that’s not the point)

But nonetheless, what is the point in the statement? Does society refuse to take care of children who are malnourished because their parents don’t spend money feeding them?

Your post comes accross a bit like “it’s your own fault, sort it out” but you have to think of all the “innocent” dependants in all this

I've never been in debt glintandglide. We're doing OK at the moment, but sanitary products would just tip us over the edge of poverty. Our outgoings are too high because our only supermarket within walking distance is Sainsbury's. Most people I know find it very expensive.

I didn’t say you were! But many food bank users/ people in poverty are. Because they have very little money they have no choice but to borrow for big one off expense. I mean I presume you’d have to do the same if you suddenly had to move house for example?

OP, I don't think you're goady as fuck, or smug, or the other things you've been called.

I think, like myself, you've simply not got any understanding of the stark reality of the situation. I just think you don't help yourself with the wording. What I thought was food poverty, would be quite a glowing scenario compared to some of the realities detailed on here.

I see what you're saying about grow your own, I see how you're trying to help with that, and it wouldn't have occurred to me that people frequently wouldnt be in the same place for long enough. I never imagined that people working a full week would face food poverty that has been described in this thread. That's through lack of information on my part.

Likewise, I agree with period poverty that a previous poster mentioned. I understand what it is, it was just never a thing when I was younger, it wouldn't have entered my mind that it now existed as a wide scale problem. I left school 18yrs ago, I've had DC in school for 10yrs and I've never heard it mentioned once. And yet it's a widescale problem. Why is it not being spoken about on a wide scale basis?

I've found my nearest food bank and I'm going to start donating. DC I explained this all to last night, and he was quite passionately upset that there are children just like him that don't have enough food.

Why didn't I know about this? Why is this not spoken about in his school?

Without being a sanctimonious arse, we are exactly the people who would be (and are) horrified at the level of food poverty, and can make contributions. What's frustrating is I could have done for the past ten years if I bloody knew about it, and I think lots of people are in the same position.

The problem isn't OP asking the question. The problem is this is so under publicised that she didn't have the first clue.