Is food poverty real?

[Leapfrog44]

Provocative title, sorry I know food poverty is real. I'm just not convinced about the extent of it.

I've cooked half a packet of dried chickpeas 50p which we eat fried with garlic, salt and olive oil. They're also delicious with pasta or with potatoes as a curry. Braised Puy lentils (60p) cooked with onions, celery and the bendy carrots left in the fridge.

And to really push the boat out an aubergine stew with onions and tomatoes. The 3 big aubergines cost £1.50. Tomatoes and parsley came from the garden.

I spent an hour cooking today including making a loaf of bread. With some rice or couscous, and some salad, what I've made will feed us for 4 nights.

We have apples too, foraged at the weekend. The windfall ones I cut the bad off and stewed them, the rest are good for eating. There are also elderberries, plums and a few late blackberries dotted around the margins of the city for anyone who can be bothered to go out and pick them.

I know not everyone has a garden but a very small space can be used to grow quite a lot. In pots I grew enough tomatoes, green beans and lettuce to feed us all summer. If I was less lazy or more skint, I'd also seed save, to ensure I can grow them for free next year. Many allotment holders would totally give up some produce in exchange for labour too.

So I guess I'm wondering if the increasing number of people who are in financial dire staits and find themselves needing to use food banks are in fact suffering from a lack of food education as much as lack of money? Our grandparents in the same situation would have cultivated every bit of earth with home grown vegetables and I'm sure would have been more resourceful and more capable of making do on very little.

Obviously there are very vulnerable people without the means to cook or to grow but surely not everyone experiencing 'food poverty' is in this category? I often wonder why at food banks they don't ask if recipients have access to a bit of ground (or a few pots) and give them seeds? Pulses and in season veggies are incredibly cheap and with a few quid you can feed your family really well if you know how to cook them. It's far better to cook a simple vegetable curry or dhal and eat it all week than have to exist on the pot noodles, tinned sludge, sugary cereals and biscuits that they're giving out.

Times are going to get MUCH tougher. Climate change and environmental destruction will soon jeopardise our food security and food banks will not be able to help everyone.

So AIBU? As a society are we actually getting poorer and hungrier or have we just raised a couple of generations lacking general resourcefulness, cooking skills and horticultural know how? Times are tough for increasing numbers but I can't help feeling that many of these people just don't have a clue how to help themselves.

The only way I could make dried lentils appealing to anyone would be to have them bulk up a casserole or stew. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford the ingredients for a hearty casserole or stew (using containing meat). I am fortunate to be able to afford the cost of using the oven to cook it.

I am fortunate and I realise many many people arent. It's really NOT that hard to grasp.

OP "Fewer and fewer people cook or grow food"

if you feel strongly about this, you should be directing that remark at people who are in a position of being able to do this - and that's not the people who are battling poverty.

as for couple of hours in a community garden - wouldn't it make more sense to take a couple of hours paid work if that was available?

do you understand that the majority of people visiting food banks are trapped because of low wages and high rents?

There is food poverty in this country and it arises from the way in which we allocate resources.

So the government (of whatever party) is desperate to be seen to be helping the deserving poor but not the feckless. The result of this is that many people on benefits struggle because no government can work out how to do the right thing and be seen to do it.

And then there is the way we allocate our personal resources. Who shops with Amazon or Sports Direct? Who uses Uber? Who looks round for a cheaper cleaner? Or is desperate only to pay the going rate and not be ‘ripped off’. Who sells their second hand children’s stuff rather than gives it to a refuge? I could go on but the point is that we all contribute to the minimum wage culture when we happily take advantage of it.

Individual actions do make a difference. So (if you can afford it ), be more generous with other people. Don’t support businesses which treat their workers terribly. And be vocal about it. If we all try to behave fairly, then we might see less people in working poverty.

It has always shocked me that well off people do not donate their used clothes, toys etc to others who are hard up. I know people who EBay who are minted and never give anything away.

All of your suggestions are ways that MIDDLE CLASS people can cut down on food costs. People with kitchen, fuel, casserole dishes, utensils and herbs/ spices/ seasonings. Oh yeah and a garden and the time and funds to start growing veg; or a friend with an allotment. Not try doing any of he above when living in a bedsit/ emergency accommodation with no kitchen or equipment and literally not a pound to spare.

Op, you’ve ignored the fact that many people in food poverty are ill. They can’t chop up veg, grind spices, crush garlic or whatever other stuff people who cook from scratch manage to do. Foraging for apples isn’t realistic if you can’t walk or bend down to pick up the fruit.

Who the hell wants to faff around growing stuff from seeds when hungry and poor? What a ridiculous suggestion!

I also notice OP has completely ignored the fact that many people won't know if they will be in the same accommodation after they've grown cress on the window sill.

The best way to make lentils appealing to eat is to buy a big bag of chicken nuggets instead.

I think this might be the most depressing thread I've read on here and I don't know where to start. I also don't know if I am closer to laughing or crying at the sheer fucking ignorance.
Let's start with the growing stuff shall we. I don't live in poverty but I am time poor due to a horrendous commute. I've got a veg garden, I live rurally. It's a lot of work - and it's a hobby. This year I've had potatoes the size of marbles, a few tomatoes and some lettuce. The only thing with a decent crop is the apple tree. How many apples can you eat in a day? I can tell you they don't stop you being hungry. The only thing I've consistently managed to grow successfully in pots on a balcony when I lived in a flat is basil. Let them eat pesto?

I've also kept chickens - they are cheap to feed if you have the money to spend on feed for them as well as for yourself but there's an initial outlay. If you have to use a food bank, where does the money come from to buy/make a coop, fencing etc.

Just get a better job. Brilliant. So even if that were possible for all - which would be an economic miracle - who does the poorly paid jobs? Or are we in some sort of utopia where there will be no poorly paid jobs? I don't think even Ireland has managed that, despite what a PP suggested.

The closest I've come to food poverty was as a student and I still remember that sick feeling of looking in the cupboard and wondering what to make. But I had family back-up and the knowledge that it wouldn't last. I can't imagine how lacking in imagination and empathy you'd have to be to think that all that was required was a little bit more effort. When nurses - NURSES - are using foodbanks you know there's something fundamentally wrong with our society.

Yes, the initial outlay of growing isn't cheap at all. I've moved in with OH and we have raised planters that he hasn't touched. Collectively, tinkering with them, planting herbs, getting netting to keep snails off, plastic forks to keep the cats off (they like to poo there), a garden fork, garden spade, watering can, plug plants...it's come to about £70 so far. I use it as a hobby, nothing significant, it's mainly lettuce, spinach, mint, and some compliant herbs. I doubt any of it will grow fast enough for me to use for months (or at all because of snails and slugs). If people spend that much and don't see results for weeks/months, they've essentially thrown away cash for no guarantees. I can see why they'd rather spend it on a guaranteed food shop. Especially when they have kids to feed.

Great post @Categoric

Chickens really aren't cheap to keep unless you make huge compromises on their welfare - and are prepared to kill them yourself when they fall ill!

Buy a suitable house for them - at least £100, make it secure from predators - another £100+, bag of chicken food £8, feeder and drinker £20, wormer a couple of times a year £30.....

If you don't have a big space for them to roam and forage in, they will eat a surprisingly large amount of food (easily a bag a month for 4 chickens) - more than you can buy value eggs for. SO whilst it is a "better" egg - it's certainly not cheaper.

Last month i spent £200 at the vets for 2 of my chickens - who both died within 2 days.

I've not had any eggs from the flock since April - some are getting too old to lay, and the others lay their eggs all over the place so we don't find them.

Then the chickens get red mite from the wild birds (who also eat the chicken food!) and you have to buy the treatment for that, then use expensive chemicals on the house.

Ooh, forgot the bedding for the house (and now you have to find the time to muck it out, and somewhere to dispose of dirty bedding) - £10 a bag (though it does last ages), and a dusting of diatomaceous earth to deter beasties.

Of course the food and bedding costs are based on buying 20kg sacks of each - so you need access to a shop and transport home. And a shed to now store all that paraphernalia in. Oh yes, and a metal bin to store the food in so you don't get rats.

I don't know why the OP is getting such a kicking. Every time someone starts a thread about not having money for food, someone will jump on and go 'Jack Munroe has loads of recipes you can use!'

JM's recipes, and I've just checked, typically include 'handfuls of fresh herbs', spices, overnight soaking, use of a cooker etc' and no one ever comes on and slags off that suggestion.

I also remember reading that some food banks were handing out her recipes, as proudly reported by The Guardian.

I do think real food poverty exists, for all the reasons PPs have stated. How truly widespread it is I don't know.

I know from experience that it's perfectly possible to eat cheaply and healthily on a very small budget - and without a garden to grow anything - but then I'd grown up in a family where cooking relatively cheap meals from scratch was the norm, so when my turn came at least I wasn't clueless. Many don't have that background to draw on.

What really does irritate me is the frequent implication that healthy eating must automatically include things like chicken breasts, salmon steaks and blueberries. I'm sure some people who don't come from home-cooking families and can't afford such things, must think it's not worth even trying to cook reasonably healthy food at home.

Hi all,
We're receiving lots of reports on this, no doubt you can imagine the content. We are reluctant to remove the thread altogether, despite several calls to do so, because it adds such a valuable perspective, but we can also see that the OP has recanted quite considerably.

We have deleted the personal attacks, so far as we can see, and would like to leave the thread to continue. We will be forced to remove it altogether, though, if the guidelines take much more of a mauling.

Surprised the poster isn't promoting the use of roadkill....

Last year we got 2 Roadkill deer, we butchered them at home, they provided a years supply of meat

Last year we got 2 Roadkill deer, we butchered them at home, they provided a years supply of meat

Where to start...

I've not noticed loads of dead deer on the streets of south east London.

If you don't have a car, will you just carry it onto public transport?

How many of us have the tools and skills which allow us to butcher dead animals they've found.

Oh and when you've removed the meat, what do you do with the remains? I'm sure the local councils will have plenty to say about slinging a dead carcass in the wheelie bin.

And you'd need a couple of chest freezers to store the meat...and electricity to run these of course.

I don't know why everyone doesn't eat roadkill!?

How the hell would I get a dead deer in the boot of my car, poor creature. Where would I store the carcass and I couldn't bring myself to butcher the poor unfortunate animal.

Formerbabe that really made me laugh sorry. I'm just imagining having a dead dear slungover your shoulder and asking the bus driver for a ticket

Hi all,
The OP has requested that her name be changed to match her most recent one, just so that it's more apparent that she has apologised and taken on board the comments here. We think that's fair enough, so we've done that now.

Let's hope the OP passes on what she has learned from this thread to her (assumed) privileged social circle and some good comes from manifest ignorance.

I don't know why the OP is getting such a kicking. Every time someone starts a thread about not having money for food, someone will jump on and go 'Jack Munroe has loads of recipes you can use!'

I'm not sure why you're using this thread to take a random pop at Jack munroe, but in fairness to her she always presents the extra herbs and stuff as things that can be done without.

Also her recipes are best suited to those with a very limited food budget who want to cook and eat well, but not actually on the bones of their arse and requiring food banks. The OP is talking about food bank recipients.

formerbabe

All we used was one knife, and we bottled it in jam jars so none of it was frozen. Then the carcass was dod food for a few days.

What did you do with the deer bones? Make the glue you've just been sniffing?