To be a little disappointed that Jesus is being taught as fact in Y1?

[PoxAlert]

We're atheists, so therefore didn't consider any faith schools for our DD.

We want her to learn about all cultures and religions and be tolerant of them all. We have friends of many faiths and beliefs and just want to be kind and happy.

Of course I expect (and welcome) Christianity to be taught in school, but we just got a copy of this term's curriculum (DD just started Y1) and for a non-faith school it seems a bit much.

Or am I being unrealistic and the school and church will always be linked?

Some of the RE points are:

"To learn who Jesus was" "who were his friends" "what did he do?"

I guess I was expecting a "what do Christians believe?" "why do they celebrate Christmas" etc etc than what seems to be a fact based history lesson....

Either way I'm not going to kick up a fuss with school, it's not a big deal really, she's free to make her own decisions in life. Just surprised me a little.

@dreamyflower

There is historical evidence that Jesus existed... more so than Julius Caesar. No-one questions when Caesar invaded England as anything but fact.

Its not the first time this total cobblers has been posted on MN. There are multiple primary sources providing evidence of Caesar's existence including contemporary accounts from reliable sources, writings by Caesar and physical evidence including coins and statues.

There is no physical evidence for Jesus, and there are no writings by Jesus. First century Greek and Roman writers do not mention Jesus. The primary sources on Jesus are the Gospels, written decades after his death and not written by eye witnesses

It's quite easy to see how people come to believe that rubbish. When I used to be dragged into the occasional church service (and when I sometimes have to go for various reasons), the preacher frequently states that it is commonly known that there is unquestionable proof that Jesus existed. Multiply that by centuries and generations, it gets repeated and people, until recently, rarely dared to question it otherwise they would have been tortured etc.

It's the same with the TF - until 60 or 70 years ago, nobody even suggested that it was genuine, but once people stopped being afraid of questioning, the church and it's followers started desperately trying to justify their repeated mantra that there is concrete evidence of a Jesus, and grabbed on to any vague reference they could find. Ignoring the fact that none of them, not even the bible, were contemporary, and many showed evidence of tampering.

@BarnabyBungle - haveyou actually read Bart Ehrman? He goes into great detail about how there is exactly zero evidence of a historical Jesus, and then comes to the conclusion that he probably did exist. It's quite bizarre.

I suggest you read his books before directing people towards him...

It doesn't matter to me whether Jesus is a historical figur or not- he may well have been. Historians do differ. It matters very much to me that it is impossible to take a full part in the life of any tax payer funded school in this country without paying at least lip service (and often very much more) to.Christianity.

Or read some Richard Carrier instead. A good logical approach.

That was to Barnaby, obvs...

Bugger - sorry - wrong thread!

Those who push the “Jesus did not even exist as an actual person” position seem to be largely driven by their desire to discredit Christianity

More likely they are driven by their desire for the truth!
Those who push the "Their actually was a man called Jesus" position seem to be largely driven by their desire to declare God, despite the facts in evidence.

The 'Bible' is not a historically accurate document. Just because it mentions someone called Jesus, no more means there actually was a man called Jesus, than Harry Potter books prove there was a young wizard called Harry Potter.

There may well have been a man called jesus who proclaimed he was the son of god. If this man did exist I believe he was not telling the truth (or he was delusional). Those are simply my options and I would never say I am right to a classroom full of children.

I have a number of friends who are religious. There is an imbalance - I have to be very careful about expressing my beliefs incase they are offended, however they simply state their beliefs (including some which could be offensive to some people) loudly and confidently.

i think it is time to have a mature debate about the place religion has in our society. Less and less people identify as Christians. We need to clarify that it is possible to be good, kind and moral without beleiving the a god created the earth and we have to whorship him.

@SarfE4sticated lol pure comedy moment

If the children have to pray on behalf of the victims of the hurricane for example it might get them thinking about the victims of the hurricane.

I am trying to show it’s not a complete waste of time.

I doubt they will be teaching the children they will be going to hell if they don’t believe in god.

Also a lot of parents elude to heaven and an afterlife when a child first deals with loss of a pet/relative. It’s a bit harsh to say to a 5 year old, there’s no such thing as heaven, your great grandma was actually cremated into tiny ashes in an oven there’s nothing left of her and you will never see her again.

I always approach religion as a bit of a history of science. People long ago trying to come up with the answers to why we exist, eclipses, apocalyptic plagues etc. It’s not stupid and children may find it useful to thing along those terms until their knowledge of science kicks in.

I always tell my kids don’t believe everything grown ups tell you all the time, that an opinion is not fact and they have to work it out for themselves.

If your child found god later on in life I doubt it’s because they had to go to assembly and pray, or had re lessons at primary school.

Maybe empathising with the victims of a hurricane might get them to think about what they can do to help, or about the causes of Global Warming, or something.

Telling them that speaking in their head, or out loud, to your preferred deity is actually doing something is hardly going to help others.

It’s a bit harsh to say to a 5 year old, there’s no such thing as heaven, your great grandma was actually cremated into tiny ashes in an oven there’s nothing left of her and you will never see her again.

Depends on the child. We’ve never, ever used the heaven card with DD, who faced significant losses at 2.5, 4 and 7.

There is much beauty and comfort in scientific truth.

I'm here all week @GirlsBlouse17

fwiw in the London community school my DD goes to, no religion at all, apart from the usual RE days where they learn all about religions it's great.

Another thread knocking Christianity. I am christian but think if most of the population don't want Christianity taught as fact at schools, then so be it, remove it, but still teach RE including all types of faiths and beliefs.

^^exactly the point.

Treat all beliefs (including none) the same. Don’t force my child to actively partake in the practices of one.

I get what you mean OP and I felt the same.

Also a lot of parents elude to heaven and an afterlife when a child first deals with loss of a pet/relative. It’s a bit harsh to say to a 5 year old, there’s no such thing as heaven
The only way you would have to tell a 5 year old there is no such thing as a heaven, is if you had spent 5 years indoctrinating them into believing there was such a thing as a heaven.

And when you use heaven as a salve for the death of a pet/relative you are harming the child in the long term because you are not teaching them how to cope with death. Which is that it is part of a perfectly natural circle of life. And consequently they never really come to terms with death and grow up emotionally stunted.

@SarfE4sticated Only one week? 😮

I'm all for religion but respect others wish not to have it

Well many atheists tell their children that Jesus doesnt exist, and state that as fact.

@CardinalSin

You may have issues with his analysis or conclusions , but his message 100% clear in that he believes that Jesus existed from a strictly historical perspective. He is clearly doing this with no religious axe to grind too.

"we have a state religion" but it's not supposed to be a compulsory religion. If you require children to go to school and then require the school to make them believe in god and/or worship it that is making it compulsory. Any Christian I could respect would be repelled by the idea of pushing it onto kids even while they might be wishing the kids would become Christian in the long run.

On the existence of Jesus on balance I'd guess that there was a preacher the story was based on as that's how things generally work, but there really isn't any evidence. It's a shame that some Christians teach otherwise as that has led to people telling me confidently that the Gospels were written by the disciples from notes they made while following Jesus around. On their Ipads no doubt.

There is a bit in the bible that makes me think Jesus existed as it happens. Just before he enters Jerusalem he says to his disciples. "I'll wait here while you fetch a donkey for me to ride in on so people will think I'm fulfilling the prophecy"
It just rings true. Who would make that up? (I'm surprised it was never edited out)

"many atheists tell their children that Jesus doesn't exist, and state that as fact." Sweethope are you sure of that? I suppose some might, but I'm an atheist and as I've just said above I'm willing to concede Jesus may have existed (not as a god of course).

In any case it should be based on facts not "if he can lie then I can"

"Another thread knocking Christianity"

Saying you don't want your child to be taught Christianity as fact in school, and pointing out as that the historicity of Jesus is not an established fact is not "knocking Christianity"