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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be a little disappointed that Jesus is being taught as fact in Y1?

366 replies

PoxAlert · 18/09/2018 12:36

We're atheists, so therefore didn't consider any faith schools for our DD.

We want her to learn about all cultures and religions and be tolerant of them all. We have friends of many faiths and beliefs and just want to be kind and happy.

Of course I expect (and welcome) Christianity to be taught in school, but we just got a copy of this term's curriculum (DD just started Y1) and for a non-faith school it seems a bit much.

Or am I being unrealistic and the school and church will always be linked?

Some of the RE points are:

"To learn who Jesus was" "who were his friends" "what did he do?"

I guess I was expecting a "what do Christians believe?" "why do they celebrate Christmas" etc etc than what seems to be a fact based history lesson....

Either way I'm not going to kick up a fuss with school, it's not a big deal really, she's free to make her own decisions in life. Just surprised me a little.

OP posts:
beeefcake · 18/09/2018 21:11

I was taught the same, went to a CofE school. We were also taught the book of Genesis as fact as well as many other parts of the bible.

Have grown up to be an atheist.

I don't really see the big deal

Dollymixture22 · 18/09/2018 21:18

Beeefcake

I was taught the same in school and am also now an atheist. I remember being worried my dad would go to hell because he didn’t believe in god. I am not sure if religious has not more or less tolerant of diverging views. But I think it’s wrong to teach children that their parents beliefs are wrong.

prh47bridge · 18/09/2018 22:48

pointing out as that the historicity of Jesus is not an established fact is not "knocking Christianity"

No it isn't but historians would disagree with you. Scholars, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, regard the historicity of Jesus as effectively certain. The overwhelming majority regard his baptism by John the Baptist and crucifixion by Pontius Pilate as genuine historical events. That does not, of course, mean they accept the rest of the biblical account. But you will find few, if any, scholars supporting the "Christ myth" theory, i.e. the idea that Jesus was not a real person.

BertrandRussell · 18/09/2018 22:57

"But you will find few, if any, scholars supporting the "Christ myth" theory, i.e. the idea that Jesus was not a real person."
Fair enough. As I said, he was probably a real person. But it doesn't actually matter one way or the other. The point really is whether if he did exist, whether he was divine.

trystedtulip · 18/09/2018 23:11

There’s a programme on TV right now about schools in Saudi Arabia where they’re still teaching the kids that all Christians should be executed by beheading. Shock makes the teachings from our schools seem tame.

LeopardSpots1 · 18/09/2018 23:21

How on earth do so many people think that it’s a fact that Jesus was a real historical person!? Shock He might have been, but it’s certainly disputed and not a fact.

Original poster
PoxAlert · 18/09/2018 23:28

@trystedtulip

There's always one.

Got yourself a mention.......

To be sick of seeing this on EVERY mn threadhttp://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3364249-to-be-sick-of-seeing-this-on-every-mn-thread

OP posts:
trystedtulip · 18/09/2018 23:33

PoxAlert So what, i mentioned it because the programme was on in another room just as i was reading this thread. Seemed appropriate to mention it, because it was coincidentally about what gets taught in schools. Why should that bother you Confused

CardinalSin · 18/09/2018 23:50

The problem is that people constantly saying that "the majority of scholars" believe there was a historical Jesus, are also a) using historical scholars, who were sponsored by the church, b) using Biblical scholars who, you know, might have a slight bias, and c) trying to ignore the inherent bias in bible study.

The fact is, that more and more people are looking into the evidence for a historical Jesus, and finding that there simply isn't any.

You can keep protesting and protesting - the fact still don't fit what you want...

beeefcake · 19/09/2018 00:05

@Dollymixture22 I was the same!!!! I also thought I would go to hell for any small misdemeanour such as peeking at Christmas presents.

beeefcake · 19/09/2018 00:07

@trystedtulip Biscuit

Lindalee3 · 19/09/2018 00:11

Jesus WAS real OMG how rude! Shock

Would you go onto a public message forum and suggest that ALLAH is fictional?

NO! You wouldn't. So stop being so rude @PoxAlert

Lindalee3 · 19/09/2018 00:13

I agree with how people find it so easy to knock Christianity.

They would never knock any other religion like this.

They wouldn't DARE.

Does my head in.

TittyGolightly · 19/09/2018 00:14

I’ll happily object to my daughter having to take part in the practices of any religion on a daily/weekly basis whilst at school.

They’re all bollocks.

CardinalSin · 19/09/2018 00:19

Erm, Allah is just as fictional as Yahweh. But he's not normally taught as being factual in British schools.

By the way, there's about as much evidence of Mohammed as there is of Jesus. It's just that you still get killed for questioning it (as you used to for questioning Jesus)...

trystedtulip · 19/09/2018 00:51

beeefcake what's the biscuit for? Good grief, mumsnet never fails to amaze. Is it because another religion other Christianity was being mentioned in a negative way? How strange, but oh so predictable.

LeopardSpots1 · 19/09/2018 01:09

Would you go onto a public message forum and suggest that ALLAH is fictional?

Er, yes Confused. Allah is Arabic for God. Quite happy to say I think he’s fictional.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 19/09/2018 01:26

Is this a public forum? Allah is as fictional as God, as fictional as Santa, as Zeus, as pixies.... Why would you teach any of them as actually existing in tax payer funded schools?

BertrandRussell · 19/09/2018 06:27

I don't know enough to say on a public forum-or anywhere else-whethe I think Mohammed is a historical figure or not. I don't know-and neither does anyone else-whether Jesus was a historical figure or not.

But I am happy to say that Allah is not real. Allah does not exist.

Original poster
PoxAlert · 19/09/2018 06:49

@Lindalee3

To me, an atheist (do you know what that is?)

Allah is fictional.....

So yes. I would....

So is Ganesh, Buddha, Jesus, Santa

The difference is I'm not going to get all offended if people have a different opinion to me.

I just don't want my child being taught something as fact that I believe to be fiction.

OP posts:
Beesandfrogsandfleas · 19/09/2018 06:52

Cardinalsin I don’t think people were killed for questioning the existence of Jesus (correct me if I’m wrong) but for questioning various aspects of the church and its authority.

PostNotInHaste · 19/09/2018 06:53

I hear you and had a moment over it early on with DD, the most memorable when she came home and announced God made the world. Was out driving and my attempt to explain evolution didn’t go quite to plan but she grasped it in a few years. She did go through a bit of a God phase as her friend was a Christian, that was fine by us.

We went down the this is what some people believe route and after a bit she decided she didn’t believe in Christianity. DS was highly cynical about it from Day 1 (he sussed Father Christmas early) and decided he’d cross his fingers during his Beavers promise to love God when he did it in that day as went off on one when he realised it was part of the promise. . We pointed out there is a moral code attached as they got older that has things in it about being kind to people that we think are good things.

By the time it got to Middle School that was a C of E School as you can put the other one that is not on the form but don’t get in therefore you have the illusion of choice, both were confirmed atheists. They got quite irritated about being told they would go to hell by the visiting vicar and now they are older, their hatred of the religious aspect is something they bond over as they reminisce, despite not being there at same time due to their age gap.

I got many complaints about it over the years and told them they had to suck it , not to be rude to anyone who does believe plus we have two ears - one for in and the other for out which is an excellent way in treating info we don’t believe in. We see it as a good exercise in critical analysis and developing critical thinking.

RiverTam · 19/09/2018 06:56

i just don’t want my child being taught something as fact that I believe to be fiction

Yet you’re very keen, with no evidence from the school at all, to believe that it will be taught as fact. Why aren’t you keen on establishing the facts for yourself, by talking to her teacher, rather than believing she’ll be taught about sky fairies?

S0upertrooper · 19/09/2018 07:03

When my DS was in non denominational primary school (he was probably about 6 years old) a local minister gave a talk on the 10 commandments. My DS recalled the lesson and explained that he had told the minister that he felt the first one was very arrogant (I am Lord thy God, thou shalt put no Gods before me) It must have been explained in language that 6 year olds understood but I was so pleased that DS felt able to question this. He also refused to go to any Christian church services and chose to stay in class with the Muslim kids as he felt they shouldn't be left out.
I wouldn't worry about your DD but there is every possibility she may chose religion when she is older and if you raise an independent thinker you have to accept that their thinking might not match yours.

starfro · 19/09/2018 07:12

The records from those times are so so poor that it's impossible to conclude too much. If I were guessing, I'd say that the most likely is that there was a Jewish preacher around those times who was well known, on which the myths were based. Perhaps called Jesus, perhaps something similar.

Most of the Bible is based on oral tradition, written down centuries later and then various parts were added/removed according to Christian politics. For example you can demonstrate that the passages that inspire the Christian snake handling practices were not in the earliest known copies of the Bible and were added later.

If you want a modern example of how oral tradition can turn a fairly mundane story into something supernatural look at the 1953 Roswell incident. A weather balloon comes down and only a few decades later we have a millions of Americans believing in extraterrestrial UFOs. If you had one of them ( a believer) documenting what happened in 1953 based on the passing of information amongst other believers, the account would be vastly different and have little resemblance to the truth. This is the same as what happened with the Bible.

You also have to take into account the fact that in these times dreams and hallucinations were considered as more factual than real accounts. I.e. if you purposely induced hallucinations and in them met Jesus, you'd be taken more seriously than if you just said you met him. It's amazing to think that this was the case, but it shows you how much cultures and beliefs change in 2000 years.

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