To be a little disappointed that Jesus is being taught as fact in Y1?

[PoxAlert]

We're atheists, so therefore didn't consider any faith schools for our DD.

We want her to learn about all cultures and religions and be tolerant of them all. We have friends of many faiths and beliefs and just want to be kind and happy.

Of course I expect (and welcome) Christianity to be taught in school, but we just got a copy of this term's curriculum (DD just started Y1) and for a non-faith school it seems a bit much.

Or am I being unrealistic and the school and church will always be linked?

Some of the RE points are:

"To learn who Jesus was" "who were his friends" "what did he do?"

I guess I was expecting a "what do Christians believe?" "why do they celebrate Christmas" etc etc than what seems to be a fact based history lesson....

Either way I'm not going to kick up a fuss with school, it's not a big deal really, she's free to make her own decisions in life. Just surprised me a little.

You can certainly supplement the curriculum. DD knows all about the pagans and the winter solstice, and how the Christians stole it for their festival. And Easter etc.

It was an interesting nativity that year. 😂

Why do people bother, your kids will believe in primary,

If you want your child to believe in sky fairies, there are schools designed for that. If you don’t you get no choice bar exclusion.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

I wonder why no political party has attempted to get rid of it.

There is historical evidence that Jesus existed... more so than Julius Caesar. No-one questions when Caesar invaded England as anything but fact.
Some people need to go to a real school that teaches critical thinking so they can learn what facts are.

The evidence that a human called Jesus, as described in the Bible, is patchy and not conclusive. The evidence that a man called Julius Caesar existed is overwhelming and conclusive.

Children should not be taught mythology as if it was historical fact.

Prayer can be a useful tool in mindfulness. To get children to sit and contemplate a problem, to think about others, their emotions etc.

It doesn’t have to be a complete waste of time to an atheist

I wonder why no political party has attempted to get rid of it.

Because the church owns half of Britain?

This is a big issue for me. Religion does not belong in schools. Schools are there to teach thought and knowledge. Religion teaches and idolises faith with no fact. They are completely antithetical to each other. I find it bloody annoying that the church was ever allowed to have such a strong and increasing influence. Not only that, but the christian church is, in common with other religions, becoming much more aggressive at pushing its beliefs. Tax the hell out of them to pay for real education before we lose all capacity for thought.

Prayer can be a useful tool in mindfulness. To get children to sit and contemplate a problem, to think about others, their emotions etc.

That’s not how they’re taught to pray though, is it?

captainproton that is a ludicrous excuse for religion. We can have mindfulness and meditation without sky fairies thanks.

Sounds like you get to homeschool!! Lololol, have fun 😂😂😂😂😂

"Prayer can be a useful tool in mindfulness. To get children to sit and contemplate a problem, to think about others, their emotions etc

Mindfulness can be a useful tool in mindfulness. There is absolutely no reason to expect children to pray in school.

Prayer can be a useful tool in mindfulness
So lets teach mindfulness. Although I have a nagging feeling the time would be better spent teaching Maths and English.

I'm with you on this one OP. Also atheist but keen for DD to learn about all religions, but in a 'this is what people believe ' rather than fact sort of way.

In Year 1 her teacher was a Christian, and she seemed to be taught a lot about bible stories being fact, whilst other religions were very much 'other'. Which was wierd really, given that there are more Muslim kids than Christian in the class.

We had lots of discussions about what people believe, and that she can ultimately make up her own mind. Last year with a different teacher there was a much different emphasis, and DD seems to be less interested.

Oh dear, so much stupid - very desperate!

There is literally not a single piece of contemporary evidence for the existence of the Jesus character. He may have existed, or may not.

However, to state it as fact is false, and shows rather extreme brainwashing.

It does annoy me that teachers are allowed to teach children that their personal faith is the truth.

I am an atheist who believes in freedom of and freedom from religion. It annoys me that five year old children are told this is all true in school assemblies. If parents believe this then they can send their children to church and Sunday school.

Religious education for older children is entirely appropriate, and it should give them an understanding of the basis and origin of world religions. The level of religion in schools seems to be influenced by the teachers own personal beliefs which surely is completely inappropriate.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of religious people in schools too. Obviously many schools require you to be religious to work there, and many people have no choice but to send their kids, but you'd have hoped a non-religious school would be free of it.

Religion seems to be embedded in most schools - with members of the clergy sitting on boards and having access to captive audiences through assemblies.

I have no problem with religious organisations coming into schools to explain to older kids what they believe and why, but where are the other view points?

When explained to children you can see why religion is attractive - nobody ever really dies and people who do bad things will be punished. But if you do a bad thing you can ask for forgiveness and it will be ok. In my opinion this fully explains the origins of religion - stories to make life more bearable ( thinK the invention of lying). However anyone teaching religion also needs to cover the wrongs which have been done in the name of religion and the parts of the bible which are incompatible with out understanding of human rights and equality.

I understanding religious people would be uncomfortable with this - however if religion needs to be taught in school it needs to be th whole picture. Best left to th parents.

But Jesus was a real person! My DD is in a catholic school despite us not being religious, and I honestly think the Christian values they teach has made her a kinder more caring person. It's unlikely she'll carry her beliefs through when we don't teach them at home but if she does that's her prerogative.

Haven’t RTFT but the RE curriculum is set by the county, not the school.

There is NO contemporary record of Jesus' existence, the Romans (those great record-keepers) failed to make one single note about him, so why people state with such certainty that he did exist and there is contemporary proof is mystifying. Read this fascinating MN topic from a while ago for some great debate from both sides of the question:

The Great Jesus debate

I honestly think the Christian values they teach has made her a kinder more caring person.

Yeah. Catholic priests have shown themselves to be soooooo kind and caring.

Kindness and caring are human qualities. They don’t come from religion (which has been the cause of how many murders/rapes/wars?).

Religion seems to be embedded in most schools

Of course it is. They’re state schools. We are a Christian country, we have a state religion. There is no such thing as a non-religious school in the U.K. unless you pay for it.

Those who push the “Jesus did not even exist as an actual person” position seem to be largely driven by their desire to discredit Christianity than a dispassionate approach to history.... it’s surely no coincidence that those who confidently state this are those most dismissive and antagonistic to Christianity....

The attached link written by an agnostic Ehrman is a much more balanced analysis in my view:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_Jesus_Exist%3F_(Ehrman)

Yeah. Catholic priests have shown themselves to be soooooo kind and caring

🙄🙄🙄 knew someone would come up with that. Funnily enough they're not teaching her to sexually abuse children.

And men commit the vast majority of murders and all rapes, very little to do with religion, so maybe direct your anger at them if you're gonna do a sweeping generalisation

The Bible and the writings of the Roman Senator Tacitus and the Jewish historian Josephus.

Tacitus was writing a good 70 years or so after the time when Jesus would have been alive, so his texts don't have the authority that a contemporaneous text would. Josephus was a little earlier, he wrote a near-contemporary account of the Siege of Masada, which was around 70-75AD.

I can't recall any reference to Jesus in Pliny. He served as an administrator under several Roman emperors, from Tiberius and up to Nero, so his period of office and influence would have covered the period during which Jesus supposedly lived. I would certainly expect Pliny to have alluded to this messianic leader.

Suetonius was later, too, and while he referred to what is now interpreted as early Christians, he's almost silent on anything significant about Jesus himself.

There is no solid contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus, and the lack of it where you might expect to find it (eg Pliny the Elder) casts reasonable doubt imo.