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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think she's being a right CF?

503 replies

itchybumhole · 17/09/2018 13:50

A bit of background first, and I'll try my best to give all the relevant information, but as I don't know much about the workings of the system I'm unsure what I need to include.

My partner split with his wife 3 years ago after 13 years together and 7 years of marriage. They have an 11 year old child together. Their marriage ended very acrimoniously after a series of infidelities on her part.
When they separated he immediately moved out of the family home with just his personal belongings and stayed with his parents until he could find a rental place. Since leaving he has paid her child maintenance by private agreement on a weekly basis.

She has today received a letter from HRMC saying she needs to repay tens of thousands of pounds in overpaid tax credits. The tax credits were paid to her during the time that he had left the family home. (He's always worked full time. When he left she went on to benefits. She hasn't worked in 13 years apparently).
The notice says that if she claimed as a couple then both parties must repay, so she called him today and said he's liable for half. His answer was... but how can I be? I have receipts for rent paid to my own house. I didn't benefit from this overpayment so why should I pay half back?
We're both so confused. What does he do now? I've told him to call HRMC but he's still smarting from the phone call from his ex wife. We're these benefits claimed fraudulently? And is he liable to repay half as she insists?
Thank you for any help or advice.

OP posts:
Spacezombies · 17/09/2018 14:55

She's obviously in trouble for the fake claim with her new partner now living there. So that's 2 years of fraudulent claiming.

But it seems like HMRC are going back for 3 years, and they are using this loan to say shed been faking from the start. He won't need to pay anything but he does need to provide evidence that he was living somewhere else to help for that first year. She was single then and his loan application has meant they're taking their money back from that too.

I think what's really angered me is the "stoney faced silence" when you confronted him about the loan application. He knows he did that. He's now being told it is contributing to her troubles, but he's being difficult about sorting it out. He's not ever going to need to pay anything. But he can at least jointly sign something saying he was not living there.

She can then face the consequences for the last 2 years without involving him.

flamingofridays · 17/09/2018 14:56

shoite yes but as soon as she can prove to them she was single during that time, she wont have to pay it back.

we don't know whether that is what the letter said, do we?

yes, he could provide her with evidence, but HMRC wont speak to him, and she's only asking him for cash by the sounds of it.

There's not a cat in hells chance i'd be signing anything whether it was true or not, i'd happily send her a utility bill or whatever proving my new address, but I wouldn't sign a thing and I certainly wouldn't pay!

Lunde · 17/09/2018 14:57

So is the situation

  • he left and she claimed as a single person
  • then after he left he took out a loan using her address
  • so HMRC are saying she wasn't single using the loan as evidence he was living there?

Either way he committed fraud either for the benefits or when he applied for the loan

flamingofridays · 17/09/2018 14:58

he didn't commit fraud for the benefits.... he applied for a loan at his old address.... she has committed benefit fraud.

Piffle11 · 17/09/2018 15:02

I think she's trying it on, to be honest. I've never worked for HMRC but have worked with benefits, and usually if it's a joint claim then both parties have to sign … if one person is claiming for the family (so to speak) then it would be their responsibility to inform the relevant dept of any changes to their circumstances - so, for example, if someone is claiming benefits as a single parent, and then a partner moves in, they should inform the dept immediately. I can't imagine that the loan has got anything to do with it, and so your DP isn't liable for the overpayment. Your DP needs to contact HMRC: he may find that they won't tell him anything if the claim is solely in his ex's name, though.

Mummymummums · 17/09/2018 15:05

If they won't discuss it with him I'd imagine it's because it's not about him. She's committed benefit fraud by the sound of it and is looking to share the cost of her deceit. Yes, I think she's just being a CF and he should have nothing to do with this.

MumW · 17/09/2018 15:08

It all sounds a bit complicated and possibly a bit of a mess. Inexpect that you are both panicking at this point - I know I would. I'd suggest getting some professional advice - maybe start with Citizen's Advice.

You need to sit down with DP and write a timeline, when marriage broke down, when he temporarily moved out, when it became permanent, when she moved new man in, date of loan, when you moved in together etc, etc.

Original poster
itchybumhole · 17/09/2018 15:09

It's all very odd that if she knew there was an investigation going on weeks ago and it related to the loan application (which was declined) and she needed to prove he didn't live at the address, then why didn't she immediately set about gathering the info to back this up?
Rather than ask him for statements and receipts for rent and utilities paid on a tenancy in his name, she instead asked him to sign a document that she was going to draw up.

OP posts:
flamingofridays · 17/09/2018 15:10

she's probably trying to get out of paying the rest of it back.....

Original poster
itchybumhole · 17/09/2018 15:10

We currently don't live together. He still rents his own place in another town. We've only been seeing each other for a matter of months.
A timeline is an excellent idea, thanks.

OP posts:
WhyDoesItAlways · 17/09/2018 15:14

Is it possible that she hasn't declared the money her has been giving her for child maintenance to HMRC too. This surely would also affect the benefits she was getting?

flamingofridays · 17/09/2018 15:16

maintenance has no effect on benefits.

ThePants999 · 17/09/2018 15:20

If he's liable, she should tell HMRC to go after him, and give them his address. If they do, he'll know because they'll get in touch with him directly. If they don't, it's because it's none of his business.

Ohyesiam · 17/09/2018 15:20

You need to see the whole letter.
If he didn’t make the claim, it’s nit his business.
People clOm tax credits by saying they work a minimum of 16 hours a week, either employed or self employed. It’s better money than unemployment btype benefits. It was set up by Gordon Brown so that it made working worth doing.
So I imagine they have rumbles her self employed status, want it all back, and she doesn’t feel like paying it, so is trying to get her ex involved.
The loan is a red herring. HMRC will not know about it, and won’t be interested. He’s committing fraud though by applying from the wrong address, but it’s another story.

Tinkobell · 17/09/2018 15:23

The loan comment from her sounds like a bit of a smokescreen issue to me. If the loan was declined it's a non issue. Assuming a joint mortgage was held on the house, he probably ought to have consulted her about applying for the loan..,which it sounds like he didn't, but given no loan was paid it's a non issue.
However it sounds like she's now trying to use this as a lever to justify possible fraudulent claim for tax credits. Did he sign the application? That's key. If he didn't consent, can prove he had moved out and she claimed jointly that has to be fraud and she has to be solely liable for the repayments. What a cow! Ring HMRC.

BrendasUmbrella · 17/09/2018 15:24

He may not be implicated, however IF the mother of his child is about to massively disadvantaged financially because of his actions, he needs to stop smarting and think about how he can help put it right.

I don't agree the loan would be a red herring. It would state that that was his address, and she was lying about being single. Those things do get flagged up. The document she was writing was probably to state that he wasn't living there, he'd have nothing to do with her work hours. For the sake of their child, they both need to be calm and civil and share information.

Tinkobell · 17/09/2018 15:27

....she's just trying to put the shitters up him about the loan application.

reallybadidea · 17/09/2018 15:29

Hang on, how do we know that HMRC know about the loan application? Did she tell you this?

Tinkobell · 17/09/2018 15:33

@Brendas ......errr what actions exactly? The ex didn't say "I know he's applied for a loan singlehandedly so I'll do tax credits" I agree 2 wrongs don't make a right but the guy doesn't have lifelong tethers to the ex....just needs to pay for his child, which he's done from day 1. Raw deal for him methinks.

BabySharkDooDooDooDoo · 17/09/2018 15:38

I dont see why he should pay half when he isnt liable. A loan is nothing like tax credits

irunlikeahipoo · 17/09/2018 15:38

I know that HMRC & The DWP used to do data matching Some local councils do it as well . Not sure if they stil do it but I would imagine that they do .

Experian and I think a few other Credit checking companies do this
for them

So they will do stuff like check if there has been any credit at the address for loans or credit cards
Any bank account opened at the address
Electrol roll and who is on it and from what date

Basically the ex wife’s credit file at the address and any financial links to others at that address

What they can’t do is credit check the new partner or your partner as it’s not their claim and they haven’t given permission for this
They can only check the person who has claimed Benefit and the address for where the benefits is being claimed

So what has probably happened is one of two things either that her TC claim has flagged up that at some point there has been a loan application not in her name but in her ex partners name at that address

Or it may have been that her new partners names and details have been flagged as living at the address via the electrol roll or opening bank account at the address or also applying for credit

So possibly when she is claiming as a single parent when they have looked back further seen the loan

TheHalfBloodPrincess · 17/09/2018 15:48

There’s a lot of jumping to conclusions on this thread.

The ex wife is being called a benefit thief with no proof - she may have told hmrc her new partner moved in 2 years ago - no one knows she hasn’t yet it seems a given based on speculation of a few posters. She would possibly still be entitled to tax credits with a partner living there - my sister and her husband get them and he works full time.

Read the countless threads on here about concentrix- although they’re not used anymore, hmrc still use some of their tactics to investigate.

All this ‘she sells mlm, sells stuff on ebay’ Is a red herring. That’s got nothing to do with you.

If it was flagged up that a loan was applied for by her ex husband at her address when she’d told hmrc he’d moved out, they would presume she was claiming fraudulently. The onus is on her to prove he wasn’t living there. Seeing as your dp has caused the mess by applying for the loan (something he did in secret from everyone) then he should be doing all he can to provide her with whatever she asks for to help her prove this.

There’s only one CF in this situation, and it isn’t her.

Tinkobell · 17/09/2018 15:48

Do be sure that he's telling you the truth, whole truth and nothing but OP.....just question the reticence over the loan app, that she had all the affairs etc. Sorry to query, I do hope he's a good'un.

ExFury · 17/09/2018 15:49

The loan could have had an effect. If that’s the case he should help her prove to them that she was single at that time.

Buxtonstill · 17/09/2018 15:51

So, was his loan declined? Does he have rent agreements from his current place? surely they prove he was living in a different town?

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