AIBU to push DD

[Jemimafuckingpuddleduck]

Don’t often post on here but could really do with some constructive advice on how to handle a situation with my eldest DD which is really upsetting me and causing quite a bit of worry.

DD is very creatively bright but isn’t necessarily as academically “clever” as her siblings. This is absolutely fine with us and we have always pushed and encouraged her where her strengths are which is art, creative writing, music. (we have said the moment she was born that she was so to be on stage)

She has had issues with attention and concentration in the past, enough so for a GP to want to refer her but we decided to manage it at home and liasing with the school so we both used the same approach and coping mechanisms..

This was a good few years ago and although she can still be a bit ditzy at times, has as she got older seemed to grow out/improved massively where her attention issues were and last year was the best school report she has had as well as doing really well in her SATS.

Around the time her attention and concentration was at its lowest she became interested in a musical instrument and we paid and still do for private lessons once a week..

This instrument and hobby has not only been the best thing that could have happened to her confidence and creative wise but I also believe was one of the key components in helping her concetration issues! She also (very proud mum) is insanely good at it and now at age 11 is near to sitting her grade 3.

Due to various reasons over the 3 years that she has done it, has had various teachers, some older some younger, definitely a few that were a better fit for but we have alsways muddled through and I have always been open to changing tutors if she isn’t happy with one she has.

Since starting high school a few weeks ago, her attitude to everything has changed, totally understandable and I’m deffo happy to have a settling in period where I’m very carefully biting my tongue, she doesn’t seem to want to do anything if it’s not something her friends are doing,

“We tried that club/group but we didn’t like it so now we are going to go to that one because we think we will like it better”

I’m struggling with how a group of 5 kids say can all have exactly the same thoughts, ideas and likes as each other and if I’m honest a little disappointed that she is not following her own lead a bit more and using her brain to make her mind up for herself as that’s how I have raised her!! She is very happy at secondary and I’m being very careful as that obviously is my main priority!

At home however all she wants to do is sit on her phone talk to her friends that she has spoke to all day and go out to play which is fine to an extent but she seems to have lost any motivation to do anything productive which for the last few weeks has involved her musical instrument..

It’s been a bone of contention over the last few weeks and if I’m honest knew what was coming but a week ago had confided in her dad that she doesn’t want to do musical instrument any more as she is not enjoying it and would rather just play for fun rather than go through formal lessons and grades, her dad has (a whole other thread) agreed with her and said push through her grade 3 and then have a break from lessons! I’m absolutely devastated for so many reasons that she has chosen to do this. Husband has said that we shouldnt push her as he was pushed to do a sport when he was younger and he hated it and I do get the reasoning but I think that DD situation is different because she a) so good at it and b) it’s such a good tool and outlet for her c) don’t necessarily think it’s something in 5 years that you can say, had a break going to pick it back up and I genuinely think she will live to regret it!

This has escalated to quite a rift between DH and I as we just think so differently about it, he thinks she is reaching out to him as she must have been so unhappy and it would be wrong to not listen to her and let her choose her own path where as I think she has got him wrapped round her little finger and basically is rubbing her hands that she has all the time in the world to sit on her phone, hang out with her pals and basically do fuck all! I also think it could be quite possibly the biggest mistake she will make in her childhood life.

What do I do? My family are all very she needs to be pushed, my sister teaches music and musical theatre and had a chat with her last night regarding not giving up on things just because they are hard or boring for a while and my mum does stamps for all her GC which equate into points and then pocket money/treats and that’s always been a great incentive in the past but if these things are not enough to hopefully reconsider, I think it’s just going to come down to battle and more arguments between DH and I.

Would love some outside POV or and comforting words for anyone that has been through or had a child similar?

I actually agree with your husband to an extent, Music should be fun and if she’s not enjoying the pressure then she isn’t going to want to continue with the instrument at all. Much better to keep on playing what she enjoys and then pick up grades later, if she wants to. It is important that she takes the exam she’s committed to, but after that then let her have a bit of a break. Perhaps compromise on continuing with lessons but with the emphasis on playing for enjoyment.

And at age 11 with 3 years study of a relatively difficult musical instrument I was grade 5. I was considered better than average musically but by no means exceptional. I’m not saying this to be nasty, but to try and help put things in perspective - she is really not going to be throwing away a spectacular musical career.

Grades aren't the be-all and end-all of playing an instrument. They're important if she wants a career as a performer or a teacher, but that seems unlikely if she's not really passionate about it, and it doesn't sound like she is. So what do you see as the critical reason for continuing to do them now?

You need to calm down with all this talk of pushing.

I don’t think that not even being at G3 standard after 3 years, is the profile of someone who is “insanely good”, sorry. You come across as really hung up on her being really outstandingly good at something. Including the “needs to be on the stage” since birth stuff. Calm, down.

Most kids are never going to be more than average or a bit better (or a bit worse) on everything they have a go at. And that’s FINE.

My 9yo does loads of activities - some have been dropped (included the musical instrument!) others have continued.

She’s not going to excel in ANY of them. But... she enjoys herself.

I don’t allow picking up and dropping things. So - everything has to be continued until the end of the current term, unless it was specifically a trial. No specialist equipment is bought until term 2 (or whenever seems appropriate).

Just let your child ENJOY this instrument. Fine, set a minimum amount of practice or you won’t pay for lessons, if you want. But forget about forcing kids through pointless exams.

If the instrument was an ensemble instrument I'd encourage her to try playing in that way instead. The socialisation of youth orchestras/bands is less intense and 'herd' like than those in school and can give a different perspective from a group of peers. It also removes the daily grind involved in lessons/practice just for the sake of exams.

In any event I'd be limiting device time massively so your daughter understands that she's only allowed X amount of time a day on the device irrespective of whether she continues playing her instrument.

My eldest has just started secondary too and she's trying to find her feet socially. She gets 30 minutes to chat/text/video call on her phone when she first finishes school and then only gets a further 30 minutes on a school day if she does all her homework and chores.

I see adults who are incapable of controlling their screen time so I'm trying to make it second nature that life comes before the device for my daughter.

I agree with your DH. She is only young once and she needs this time to be herself and be a teenager. I used to dance as a child and was alright at it I suppose. Don't think I was ever going to make career of it. But as I entered my teens it needed more time and effort, when school was also becoming more demanding and harder. I quit and it was the best thing for me. My parents supported me regardless.

It will only end in tears and she will resent you for pushing her if it's something she doesn't actually enjoy anymore and is just something she feels like she has to do. Along with school work and everything else.

She is finding her own way and her own interests. They're just different to your own now.

I agree that unlimited free time to be on phone is unnecessary and undesirable, so I agree with pushing her into doing organised activities maybe three times a week. But...she should be choosing the activity, not you (with cost limitations). There will be other things that she will enjoy and be good at.

The grades aren’t even important to a career in many cases - audition is more important. If she does need a grade certificate, you don’t have to do them all. Skip 1-8 and just get her diploma when she’s ready (and wants to).

I had G3 violin after 3 years, and I can assure I was pretty average.

I was completed self taught as a musician and have thoroughly enjoyed my amateur music career- it has bought me in contact with loads of professional musicians and few took any exams/grades.

Let her enjoy her music - She may well do better.

Just as a comparison - my child (10) started an instrument October of last year and is G4 now. It's not an easy instrument and I wouldn't say that my daughter is exceptional. Grades aren't necessary though, you don't have to do them in order to carry on having lessons and playing.

That said, I think it's probably a mistake to give up her only non-school related activity. Is there anything she would be willing to do instead? I'm not sure it's brilliant to be totally consumed by friends at 13 - friendship go wrong and she won't have an outlet.

I had Grade 3 oboe after 3 years and have no innate musical ability whatsoever, in fact I'm pretty tone deaf. I played and worked hard because I enjoyed it. When I stopped enjoying it, I stopped learning.

If she truly loves it and misses it she had the option to go back to it. But don't force her, she will only resent it.

Thanks for replies, definitely taking all on board.

I’m her mum so my take on insanely good comes from a place of pride and love rather than I thinking she is going to be the next Birdy!! It also relative to her as before she took lessons she couldn’t sit through a 20 minute maths lesson and a year later was able to achieve a distinction in something she had worked her socks off at...

I obviously want her to be happy but again as her mum can’t help but think she just wants an out of everything because it’s all too much hard work.

Another one saying that Grade 3 at 11 after 3 years lesson is merely average. If she doesn't want to continue, well, it's done it's job. It's improved her concentration, and if she ever comes back to music, being able to read the notation and having trained her ear to some extent will be an advantage. But she doesn't want to drop it, she wants to play for fun - so find her a group she can play with, or a teacher who will play with her and enhance her skills without any grade pressure.

She's now entering teenage years, which are about finding her place socially. The interpersonal skills she learns over the next few years will enhance her career success, whether or not she's a high flyer. As a high achiever myself, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest determiner of career success is how well you can work with other people.

You asked if anyone had been through similar - DS2 spent all his secondary years concentrating on being "cool" and making friends. Even Saturday jobs were based on having a friend already working in the same place. Uni (STEM subject) because he didn't have a clue what he wanted to do - came out with a 1st and is now (late 20s) earning well, with partner and their own house, good work life balance and is thoroughly enjoying himself.

If she has musical aptitude, she may well be offered instrument lessons at school. These are often group lessons, and can lead to other opportunities for playing.

Grades, per se, are not the be all and end all of music lessons. But there are key ones if you hope for certain musical study after school. I think that G5 by age 11 or 12, than G5 theory, and on to G8 while still at school.

You say that you didn't want a GP referral for her concentration, etc. it may be time to rethink your approach. She may need help to learn strategies for survival in the new environment.

“Insanely good” is pretty strong selling, even for a mother though

Just try to park your desire to have a child who excels, and concentrate in what she enjoys. My first boyfriend was really REALLY good at piano (BBC Young Musician early rounds, music school scholarship that he turned down) but he preferred the violin because he liked orchestra. (and snogging one of the other violinists )

Forgot to say that there was an interesting thread in education or music recently. I'll try to find it. Well worth a read to help gain perspective.

She may enjoy local youth theatre or music theatre if music lessons are getting her down.

My DD has just started high school and we're having the same thing. My stance on it is that it's a huge period of transition and during that time making huge decisions is a terrible idea. So she's continuing with her instrument for now and we'll revisit at half term. I know she loves it so that helps! I will say that practice has gone way down just because of all the homework and the fact that she's knackered, and I expected that to happen.

She wanted to have a pixie cut in the first week of term as well. Same thing applies - too big a decision to make when you're going through a huge change! If she still wants it in October, no problem.

PPs shouldn’t only focus on grades as the measure of ability, especially as you all recognise they aren’t the be all and end all. OP knows her daughter, and there’s no reason to doubt that she is talented.

I feel for you OP - she’s at an age where her opinions matter and she should be listened to, but she isn’t guaranteed to make the best decisions for herself. Have you talked to her to really explore what she would be giving up? Or what it is that means she doesn’t enjoy it any more?

Could you compromise? Say that for now she can give up lessons but she still has to practice for a couple of hours a week? That might give her the break she needs but still keep her eye in should she decide in time to pick it back up?

Your op rather gives the impression you view her as a project to be molded more than as an individual. I do understand your concerns about her wanting give up on things too easily, but you can't make her enjoy music lessons and if she doesn't enjoy them she's not going to be getting much from them. Interests and passions can come and go for all of us. The most important thing is that she works to the best of her ability at school, I'd let her be other than that. Being social and having friends is important for her, no shame in that.

I used to play the clarinet. I got my grade 3 at 9, so nothing amazing. My parents were like you, they though because I had enjoyed it, I should necessarily want to continue, join bands and groups and so on. In fact my mum said to me only the other day, 30 years on, that she was surprised I didn't still play. I liked it for a couple of years, then I got bored of it and would have like to do something else. Playing an instuments fits in with your narrative of your daughter. She is clearly not insanely good, perhaps she has learnt quickly, but if she doesn't want to do it, why force her?

I think it’s really important to give children the opportunity to try as many things as they can, this gives them choices and knowledge of what makes them happy and what they enjoy doing.

She’s 11, and transitioning to secondary school is probably the most change she’ll have experienced to date. So give her a break, finding her feet socially is very important to her and her development right now. Let her take the break from her music for a while, so if she goes back to it, it’s because she wants to. And not because you’ve forced her to, she really won’t thank you for that

I disagree with PP and would (gently) insist on your DD continuing with music lessons for the time being. It clearly helps with all kinds of things such as focus, ability to concentrate, sense of achievement, etc. It doesn't matter if she's "average" or not - she's developing real skills in music.

Starting secondary school is a BIG deal - lots of upheaval and it will take a time to settle. It is really common for kids to temporarily lose interest, or struggle to find the time to practise. This is where you can help her find a structure where she can have time to do her homework, practise, relax AND have fun.

It was an AIBU thread. " To not think that abrsm grades are worth it"

It may give some food for thought.

lol - my son was grade three when he was 11, and was useless! It is frustrating when they want to drop everything, but providing she gets homework done and has good reports, I would leave her for the moment.

It’s piano she plays and she also enjoys (or did) working out current songs/music and singing along to which I love to hear as she is a really good singer and she has said that’s her favourite part of piano and the bit she wants to work on so fingers crossed that sticks to her guns, like she has said and that continues even if she gives up the grades.

I guess I’m just sad that something that she has so much love and decication for has just been abandoned overnight because it doesn’t fit in with being cool or with her friends!