to think the school are at fault?

[Marie0]

My DS 13 (year 9) has really bad behavioural problems.

He's in a vicious cycle in school. He doesn't learn anything due to him being sent out class due to his behaviour and then when he doesn't understand his work he starts to misbehave again due to frustration of not understanding.

He hates most of his teachers as they don't have the time of day for him and are seemingly waiting for him to make a wrong move to send him out. As a result school have put him on a different time table to his friends so he attends lessons with teachers he gets along with who will 'tolerate' him and hopefully he will learn something.

We regularly meet with his head of year (once a term) and the content of the meetings are just about his behaviour. (Disrespectful, truancy no motivation). It didn't really occur to me that there may be a learning difficulty as I presumed teachers would be able to pick up on this?

We've just been told they did a test and he has the reading age of 8!

AIBU to think the vast majority of his behavioural problems are probably down to the fact he most likely has a learning difficulty and that school should have been on this a lot sooner?

I think these posts are unneccessarily harsh.

The op might not be the best reader herself. Or have dyslexia or something.

I don't think it is completely down to parents to recognise a child is below their reading age as how many people that aren't teachers know what reading ages should be/can tell what is below standard at primary age?

I think as they get older though, if you read with them and had a good reading level yourself you would notice something not quite right but telling the op that she's failed her child etc is disgusting.

@ MissusGeneHunt maybe see if you think ‘slow processing’ fits

But how are the school supposed to pick up on it when he's continually misbehaving?

He’s in year 9! They managed to administer a reading comprehension test so presumably at some point in the past two years there would have been an opportunity to do other assessments or 1-1 work.

This isn’t a kid who has kept their head down and flown under the radar, this is a kid who has been a persistent problem, and who has been very much on the radar.

Oh the irony of criticising the OP and her family’s literacy skills whilst demonstrating how shit your own are!

That was to @Zfactorstar

This isn’t a kid who has kept their head down and flown under the radar, this is a kid who has been a persistent problem, and who has been very much on the radar.
My point was that, given his behaviour and the fact that he's been sent out of the classroom so much, there won't have been many opportunities for individual teachers to pick up on a problem. Bear in mind that at secondary level he'll have had multiple teachers for just a couple of so lessons a week. Plus each teacher will have 30 odd pupils in the class to teach, and is supposed to be teaching them a subject rather than just assessing their behaviour. They won't have the time or opportunity to easily spot if a pupil who's barely in the classroom working has actually got specific difficulties. It's just not practical.

Range it’s not just individual teachers working in a school all sending out the same kid. There are people whose job it is to spot that the same kid is being sent out all the time. There are pastoral leaders and SENCos on reduced timetables who pick these kids up and try to get to the bottom of what’s going on. If this kid isn’t in lessons, then what exactly has he been doing all that time?

This poor bairn has been failed all round.

Aye, school should have put strategies in place to support him and help him manage his behaviour and the things he struggles with.

BUT

Without a diagnosis and a support plan, how can they?

It is up to us as parents to fight for what our children need, and I say fight because it often is a fight.

OP, take him to the doctor, request a paediatrician referral, and go from there. If there are SN/a DX to be had, that will start the process for him to get support.

Even if it’s ibformal, through research and finding the coping strategies which work for him.

As a parent, abdicating responsibilities and putting them all on to the school, who cannot push for or even get a diagnosis, is not on.

This wee laddie needs you, you’re his Mum, he needs to you help him find out what’s causing his distress and negative behaviour, and help him find ways to cope. You need to liaise with the school to improve his behaviour and also his education.

Because from what you’ve written it sounds like everyone has given up on him and that’s heartbreaking.

I don't know about the OP but we've raised many concerns about our three children over the years to have them dismissed then for it suddenly be a major issue later - over and over again.

For some reason they tested whole ks2 and found eldest working two years behind in one area and she has embarrassed to be put in to yr 3 support group with underperforming boys who messed around – two years of school saying there was nothing wrong. We then did a lot of support work at home and stepped in quicker despite concerns being dismissed from then on.

However we're well educated and I'm around a lot - lot more than I every wanted - so we have time and can pay for some resources.

Of course parents are teachers . But they don't necessarily teach to the school curriculum.

Reading is reading. What has the curriculum got to do with it? Why restrict children to just the curriculum?!

Oh and to those who suggested it, there is no way that this 13yr old child has a reading age of 8 due to bad behaviour. No way. Apart from the fact that bad behaviour is usually a symptom, it would not in itself lead to a child without LD becoming so far behind. Behind, yes. 8yrs behind, no, absolutely not.

13 - 8 = 8?

Dyslexic children often have behaviour problems, they lack focus and concentration skills as well as organisational skills - losing kit not having pens etc

School teachers do not have training on special needs - it's a disgrace!!

Yes school should be aware of the basics - and offer support

BUT unless you are THAT pushy parent who knows the system and the law you get nothing -

Your son has been failed by the school and continues to do so

If his behaviour is bad at home then it's very clearly not just a case of difficulty accessing the level of work he is expected to do in school! And YOU are his parent - YOU are his primary advocate for any help that he needs - not his school! YOU should have been aware of his continuing low level of literacy & not just 'assumed it was being dealt with'!! The schools DO obviously have a role to play here, but you absolutely can not abdicate all responsibility for the situation- he is YOUR child!! You need to stop assuming, meet with the school in a non confrontational way & work WITH them to get your son the help he needs ASAP.

You can not blame the school. You should have been championing his cause.

Why were you not demanding him getting more support all the way through primary? And in year 7 and year 8?

I agree with pp's, get a meeting with HoY and Senco ASAP. And secondly go and see GP and get referral to Paediatrician ASAP as well.

Advanced search, people.

The OP posted only a week ago to say that a therapist had identified there was a potential issue with unresolved grief linked to a loss 5 years ago. That’s probably not a coincidence.

Titty just found it.

I agree OP, unresolved grief can be really really hard to cope with.

I lost my Mum last year, and my kids were absolutely broken. DS1 responded really well to counselling in school, I’ll try and find the name of the resources they used because they were really helpful (he’s autistic and they took that into account).

OP I think you’ve had a rough ride here, I have a 15 yr old with autism and he is very firm about “school stuff” and “home stuff”. To the extent he has always refused to read at home.

Ironically he was always more than happy to be read to and loves an audiobook....go figure.

He took an awfully long time to learn to read. Even now he is confident he won’t ever read for pleasure. He reads for functional reasons, instructions etc but beyond that he cannot be bothered. He still loves audiobooks though and adores Harry Potter books and the Dragon books by Cressida Cowell. It might be worth trying to make books fun by downloading audiobooks of stuff which interests him,

Beyond that keep meeting with the school, it’s hard when children don’t fit neatly in to school, it doesn’t work for all children but we can’t all home educate,

Will PM you.

Mumsnet - home to some of the worlds biggest wankers.

If the cap fits, racecardriver and xfactor

I think you should be pressing with your school and g p either a d h d or autism. This should have been done in nursery or primary but better late than nether. I think you have been ignoring the extent of his behaviour as if it will right itself. That will not be happening without the right care and treatment and education that this young man needs before he needs to make his own way in life. I wish you well, I speak as a mum of a 10yr old with a d h d and a 9 yr old with autism.

Agree onefoot a failure to realise this is a Mum who is struggling and shocked.

I think teachers get a crap time...I am from a family of teachers but they all recognise parents struggling and don’t take stuff personally. Then again they all work with kids who have additional needs and know how badly their needs are met..even with a diagnosis.

I am thinking ADHD or autism too possibly PDA. My friends son is autistic with PDA....
He gets anxious when he cannot follow work and is very badly behaved at those times, he can be equally badly behaved at home. He now attends a special school.

My son attends a special school too and they have an ultra bright boy there who will sit a whole raft of exams but is utterly unmanageable in a mainstream school.

Mainstream schools cannot meet the needs of all students...either with or without a diagnosis. They are too pushed for that with barely enough time to stop never mind go backwards to revisit stuff pupils haven’t understood.

titty what I meant by that was that there's a very joyless theme running through his thread that suggests that if people don't know what level an 8 year old should be reading at then they must never have read with or engaged with their child. I see my job as expanding my children's education - not to obsess over what level they might be at or second guess the school's judgment there. The idea that parents who don't know the school curriculum inside out are not educating their children and somehow failing them is very narrow minded. The OP might have read with their child every day and still not know they weren't at the expected level unless school told her what that level was. Fwiw though school told me to stop making my DD read aloud to me at 6 because she was reading for pleasure. I don't think she was reading better than I'd expect of an 8yo so it's entirely possible that the op's DS was at the expected level when he was at the reading aloud stage but has failed to progress.

If this lads grief started five years ago, and his reading. Age is five years behind, than it's likely there is a link, and he may not have learning disability.

However on saying that, everyone has failed this child. For neither parent oror school to notice he's basically functionally illiterate is appalling.

So op, other than sayinf not your fault, why not focus on what you can do to help him. The primary responsibility is yours.

Whether the op should have noticed or not is debatable. If the op doesn’t have other children she may not know what the standard is for different ages. The school definitely should have been aware though.
It could be that he is misbehaving due to struggling with his work or he could be struggling with his work because he has been sent out so much for misbehaving and has missed a lot of teaching time.
What I’d be doing now op is pushing for an assessment of his needs. I’d also be seeing if the school can put any intervention in place to help with his reading and any other areas where he is struggling. Does he work better 1-1? And try and read as much as you can at home with him and to him. Even if he prefers to read comics, magazines, Fortnite manuals, newspapers whatever. Find something he enjoys reading.

And I absolutely think he could fall that far behind if he is constantly being sent out and likely isn’t on task when in class. He’s basically not in school!
I do think the school are more culpable. Some parents may be illiterate themselves (obviously not the case with the op but it’s possible!). Whereas it’s part of a teachers job to know what level children are working at and the school should be putting extra support in place if needed.