To delay paying childminder

[Harmonyrays]

On day two of my ds being with his new childminder I receive an invoice for the entire month. Is this normal? I'd expected to get it at the end of the month. I've only just gone back to work and don't get paid until then.

AIBU to delay paying until the 30th?

If you require an ongoing service and for that self-employed person to keep themselves available to provide you with a service (and so miss out on the possibility if providing a service to someone else) you pay in advance.

To all those suggesting it is only CM who charge in advance or that they shouldn't do this, what do you suggest as a way for them to avoid customers who will use thne service for a month and then leave and not pay, or delay paying? How do you suggest they are protected from this happening?

And regarding paying a large chunk of money upfront or in arrears.....it's a large chunk of money regardless. If you can't afford it, you can't have the service. You know the price when signing up for a CM or nursery - you sign up on the basis you will pay, and if you can't afford it, that's not the CMs fault.....you simply then cannot sign up. If you can't afford it at the point if starting the contract, then wait to start until you can afford it. Just because you have got a job and need childcare, doesn't make it the CMs responsibility to bail you out until you get paid.....you need to take responsibility for childcare and that involves finding something suitable that you can afford and paying for it on time.

Too many people are CFers. They would rather pay their gas bill or go out for a night and avoid or delay paying their CM, because they think they can get away with it because they are small businesses. Often they will get away with it, as seen numerous times on this thread......hence charging in advance.....no cash, no service. Very simple. Just because children are involved, doesn't give people the right to treat a service provider as a mug......you pay for the service up front if that is the deal, and if you haven't paid and met your side of the deal, you can't be surprised if the service isn't provided.

Only childminders it seems get paid in advance

And nurseries.
And school fees.
And holidays.
And school trips.
And phone contracts.

Absolutely....nurseries require fees in advance, as do holiday clubs, private schools, after school clubs.....

Is it only those who have decided these other childcare providers are too expensive or that because they insisit on payment in advance and can't be messed about, that complain about childminders looking to give themselves equal protection, or are looking for childminders who charge in arrears, precisely because they think they just might decide to, or get away without paying for the full service received??

Those who think charging in advance is wrong or money grabbing or greedy don't seem to be able to see it from the CM point of view at all - don't seem to understand the high risk of being out of pocket - why is it hard to understand? All these people seem to be thinking about is that they don't want to pay a lump sum or will struggle to pay a lump sum, which actually suggests they might struggle to or not want to pay it in arrears either. Part of having children and childcare is managing your money and paying the costs involved in having children. Yes, childcare is a significant cost for many families and hard to cover for lots......but if you want a service you have to pay for it, and also to understand the issue not just from your point if view as customer, but the CMs view too.

And yes, all the umbrella groups which include CMs and advise them, help with contracts, help with legal matters etc, advise payment in advance. It is absolutely normal despite what some people seem to think, for the fact that there might be some CMs charging in arrears.

Pretty much any long term arrangement is paid for in advance.
I have a Few to add to your list spoupdragon (fantastic name btw);
Tv/internet provider
Energy bill
Gym membership
Insurance (home, contents, pet)
Rent/Mortage
Credit cards
Anything you buy on finance
Loans
Tuition fees

Honestly, if you want to pay an occasional babysitter pittance, good luck to you. If you want to pay a professional childminder (who is required to track and plan as much as an early years teacher) then you are going to have to pay for that quality care.

Hahha after complimenting you on your name I realised I typed it wrong 😂 that’s what happens when I get on my soapbox! Sorry soupdragon

I am a tutor. Payment in advance by the month or term only. This secures the weekly slot and ensures that I do not spend hours planning for, buying resources for and teaching children whose parents then announce that they are stopping tuition and never pay for work done. Yes, this happened to me several times when I was more relaxed about payment. I am running a business. I have bills to pay, same as you do. I do not have time to be chasing payments from people who do not value my work with their children.

God the ignorance about what cms have to pay out for is amazing. The fact that some people think we have no expenses as having minded kids is just like being at home for the week is eye opening.

Training (mandatory and voluntary) including petrol there and back.
P.L.I. monthly
Endless printing of policies, proceedures for every new parent, kids assessments, photos of activities, learning logs etc.
Diaries
Toys
Crockery, cutlery etc age appropriate.
Resources for crafts, drawing, colouring etc.
Extra heating and lights i would Not have needed if no kids there all day. (Its not normal daily expenses at all)
Extra food for snacks and meals.
Registation fees yearly.
Cm association fees monthly.
Extra petrol for picking up/dropping off kids and going out.
Business use for car insurance.
Several car seats, buggies and associated stuff depending on ages of kids you have.

Yep we are raking it in and have nothing to pay out at all.

A childminder is not an employee.they.are self employed and are providing a service.They are not babysitters but professional people who will put into place all of the legal requirements in order to support parents whilst also protecting themselves.If you didn't agree to the terms then you should have not signed it.Now I would recommend speaking to them and discuss what your expectations are.It matters not whether the childminder has to pay for things in advance only that these are her terms and you agreed to them.However if you choose to go back to them bear in mind they may be a little apprehensive regarding your future relationship.If it was me I would be wondering what else you are going to raise that you had agreed to in the future.

Put it this way if you go to the supermarket and say can i have my groceries until the end of the month they would say no chance as how do they know you will pay. Its same for a child minder. How does she know the day before payday you will not pull your child from there care and not pay. Not to mention they are providing i assume food and materials to entertain your child. I suggest you look into working tax credit childcare element but any child care setting will request you be a month infront. If you speak to your provider maybe see if they will avvept a partial payment until then but you would then need to put yourself a month in front at end of month. This should have been discussed before your child started.

I pay my nanny at the end of the month for the hours she’s done and I pay her tax and NI quarterly. Never had a childminder but seems strange to pay b4 they have done the work. I certainly don’t get paid in advance but at the end of the month!

My CM invoiced me at the end of each month for the hours she had worked, and I paid her immediately.

I have never paid a babysitter, plumber, joiner, caterer, piano teacher, photographer, artist, cleaner - or anyone else in a similar freelance role - in advance. They give me the bill, I pay it. I don't mess them around, I pay in full and as fast as I can. But I do not accept that it is weird for the OP to think she could pay in arrears God knows that's what my employer does!

emmakc1977
You dont employ a cm.

You dont pay thier tax and insurance.
You pay for thier service.
As said numerous times there is nothing to stop a parent using a cm for a month then buggering off without paying. It happens a lot more than people think.
As evidenced on this thread many people dont see cm as professional people providing a business service that has to comply with numerous legalities and professional guidelines with ongoing training and inspections.

A nanny is an employee and has all the protection/rights of an employee. If an employee doesn't get paid they can raise a grievance with their trade union (if they have one) or with ACAS, they can go to mediation or a tribunal, there are established channels they can go through. A childminder has none of these protections and her only option would be to take the non-payer to the small claims court, a lengthy and costly process with no guarantee of payment at the end of it.

Only childminders it seems get paid in advance

To add to the already excellent lists posted I'd like to add:

• travel/bus pass
• train/coach/airline tickets
• after school activities (e.g., football, dance class)
• swimming lessons
• driving lessons and driving tests
• concert tickets
• party bookings (e.g., group booking set menu meals and entertainment)
• toddler classes (Jo Jingles, Toddle Talk, etc)
• university tuition fees

All need to be paid in advance of the service being provided and no fee means no service.

All childcare and clubs I have always paid upfront, except the salary of our nanny I pay after at the end of the month.

The fact you haven’t been paid is neither here nor there to her. Hopefully you can get this sorted or your relationship is off to a bad start..

Willow, totally agree that too many people do not see childminders as professional but more of a glorified babysitter.

You would be VERY surprised at the amount of people who don’t pay the childminder!
You would not expect any other profession to provide services for a whole month before paying.

Interesting.

I paid for nursery fees in advance decades ago.

I work for a telecoms company and we bill line rental broadband in advance and call charges in arrears, unless you gave a call inclusive package in which case it's all in advance.

A huge amount of services are paid in advance.

I have never paid a babysitter, plumber, joiner, caterer, piano teacher, photographer, artist, cleaner - or anyone else in a similar freelance role - in advance. They give me the bill, I pay it.

Do you pay them after one “session” or make them work for an entire month before paying?

Kate exactly.....same goes for painters and other tradespeople....I've seen posts on here with comments made about "how surprised" people were that their decorator expected payment for a job done.

"He's phoned me four times!"

When the work was completed a week prior and they STILL don't think they should pay....all sorts of excuses "Oh I have to transfer money....I have a baby and a job!"

And he's got to EAT!

I used to pay my childminder by arrears.

When I became a childminder, the whole profession had changed so that you payed in advance, and from what I see in my networks, rightly so judging by the cheeky fuckers who don't pay.

Not read the film thread so apologies if it’s moved on. My oldest DC is now 12...between my 2 DCs there have been nursery care, wrap around and childminders.

I have never had to pay in advance. That said if that’s the system your CM has you’re probably going to have to pay out. It’s effectively their salary.

A service still needs to be provided before you get paid for it.

It’s pretty clear that it doesn’t.

Have you mentioned this universal rule to gyms, universities, private schools, Amazon Prime, nurseries, insurance companies, the AA, the National Trust, self-storage facilities, removal companies, Transport for London, and all the others mentioned on this thread?

I'm self employed and so is dh we provide a service and at no time ever do we get paid before we have provided that service.

That’s your business model. It’s either your choice or prevailing market forces in your sector. It is not universal.*

• I am increasingly convinced this should be included as a reminder before anyone is able to post on MN.

I think if you are self employed you take the risk of maybe not getting paid. As do gardeners builders painters etc.
Still say a deposit is reasonable to cover costs etc. After school clubs you pay after.
Equally you could pay a month up front and the childminder could just stop minding and you have lost your money.

After school clubs you pay after

Not the experience of so many people on this thread. We pay for all clubs and activities beforehand.

It is not universal. I am increasingly convinced this should be included as a reminder before anyone is able to post on MN
Spot on.

I use to pay my child minder at the end